First, find out what isn't true…

September 22, 2010

Israel has been a Member of the IAEA since 1957

Filed under: Iran, Israel & the Palestinians — Tags: , , , , , , — talknic @ 5:55 am


Contrary to popular belief Israel has been a Member of the IAEA since 1957. It gains all the benefits of membership.

However it does not fully support the IAEA by signing to the NPT (Non-Proliferation Treaty). The NPT does not require any Nuclear-Weapon State alone to relinquish it’s weapons. NB: ‘pursuant to’

“Desiring to further the easing of international tension and the strengthening of trust between States in order to facilitate the cessation of the manufacture of nuclear weapons, the liquidation of all their existing stockpiles, and the elimination from national arsenals of nuclear weapons and the means of their delivery pursuant to a Treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control,..”

Each nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to transfer to any recipient whatsoever nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or control over such weapons or explosive devices directly, or indirectly; and not in any way to assist, encourage, or induce any non-nuclear-weapon State to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices, or control over such weapons or explosive devices.

Israel’s Nuclear Weapons DID NOT stop the wars with Lebanon. They did not act as a deterrent. Israel was not decimated. It was able to protect itself with conventional arms. Until such time as they are used, they are useless. Their use is of course against International Law, they are a Weapon of Mass Destruction. There is no valid reason for ANY Nuclear Armed State to not sign to the NPT.

Negotiations between the State of Israel and the Palestinians. What are they really about?

…It’s actually quite simple. If it isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel,
then it’s a territory of Palestine…


territories illegally acquired by war by Israel-never legally annexed
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The actual legal status of the two parties

Israel is already an Independent Sovereign State. In order to be an Independent Sovereign state, it must have defined boundaries over which it has total control. Israel’s boundaries were defined by the Jewish People’s Council’s acceptance of UNGA Res 181, May 14th 1948. Based on the information disseminated to the International Community of States May 14th 1948 by the provisional Government of Israel, Israel was recognized by the majority of the International Community of States by it’s declared boundaries, over riding the Arab States legal objections. The Israeli Government confirmed the extent of Israel’s sovereignty to the UNSC on May 22nd 1948 and on June 15th 1949.

Israel has never legally annexed ANY territories outside of it’s declared Sovereignty. Even territory ‘acquired’ by force/war, defensive or aggressive, must be legally annexed, via an agreement with the entity having territories annexed.

Within Israel’s actual Sovereign boundaries, it has every right to defend itself against all comers in accordance with the UN Charter, International Law, The Laws of War and the GC’s it has ratified. It can make any laws it wishes.

Outside of it’s Sovereign boundaries, in territories ‘acquired’ by war by 1950, illegally annexed “territories occupied” and in other “territories occupied”, it comes under the scrutiny of the UN/UNSC and the other Regional Powers, who BTW have a right to military intervention.

Entity of Palestine

Palestine was a provisional State under the Mandate. It’s borders were legally defined by default by the Internationally acknowledged boundaries of the Sovereign states surrounding it. Including Israel, the day it was declared.

Under the British Mandate, all citizens of Palestine were Palestinians. (including Jewish folk). TransJordan meanwhile was under a separate administration, a state without full independence. In 1946 TransJordan achieved full Independence. Only the folk who lived in the area that became TransJordan had automatic right to become Jordanian citizens. Folk outside the area did not.

What remained of Palestine after Jordan’s independence, was still called Palestine until Israel was declared independent of Palestine May 14th 1948. What remains of Palestine is still called Palestine and it is still a provisional State. It’s status has never been legally altered.

Neither the Jewish homeland state or Jordan are in or a part of Palestine, having declared their Independence from it. Furthermore, corpus separatum was not instituted over Jerusalem, none of Jerusalem was within Israel’s declared sovereignty and Israel has never legally annexed ANY territory. Jerusalem’s status as part of Palestine, has never legally changed.

In order for an entity to declare itself an Independent Sovereign State, it must A) control all of it’s declared territories B) Be completely free of all dependencies on or imposed by other entities C) the declaration must be made by a non-political party, representing all the people of the entity, regardless of their political preferences. (E.g., the Jewish People’s Council, a non political body, formed specifically to declare statehood and to last only until a State Government has been formed. A state must be formed before a State Government can exist)

Throughout it’s entire history Palestine has always had some entity in control of all or some of it’s territories. It has never had the opportunity to miss AND Palestine has not had a name change since the Roman era. It’s citizens are still Palestinians.

Israel is being asked to adhere to it’s voluntary obligations to the UN Charter, the Conventions it has ratified and it’s voluntary obligations to International Law. This is a obligation, negotiations or no negotiations.

So what do the negotiations actually represent?

Are they negotiating Israel making concessions to the Palestinians? No. Israel cannot make a concession with something that is not Israeli. Under Israel’s voluntary obligations, territories acquired by war and the illegal annexation of “territories occupied” are simply not within the extent of Israel’s Internationally recognized Sovereignty.

Is a peace agreement being negotiated? No. A peace agreement cannot be made until Palestine has been declared a State and a State Government has been elected and a Palestinian declaration of Independence cannot come into effect under ANY form of occupation or control by another entity. The Israeli declaration of the State of Israel did not come into effect until “ minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time”, AFTER the British Mandate (occupation) ended. Israel must first withdraw before a a state can be recognized AND before peace agreement is fully effective. (see the Egypt Israeli Peace Agreement)

Is RoR being negotiate? No RoR is an individual right. Under which the Israeli Government has the right to veto any application that does not met the criteria. The Palestinian leadership can only demand Israel recognize the right.

The official Palestinian demand for recognition of RoR is based on UNGA Res 194 which is in turn based on the UNHCR definition. It does not include all lineal descendants. People must have lived in the region of return.

What IS being negotiated : is how generous the Palestinians will be in helping Israel out of the deep ILLEGAL HOLE it has dug for it’s citizens. The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been living OUTSIDE of Israel’s Sovereign territories.

The Palestinians only ask for their legal rights.

Israel asks for the right to territory which is not it’s own

September 18, 2010

If Israel legally annexes territories after this round of negotiations, it will tell us two major realities.

…It’s actually quite simple. If it isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel,
then it’s a territory of Palestine…


Perhaps the most ironic outcome would be were Israel to legally annex ANY territories in a negotiated outcome.

It would

A) Quite clearly show that all along those territories were NEVER actually sovereign to Israel, thereby dispelling the twaddle peddled by those who say it is already Israeli territory.

B) Quite clearly show the generosity of the Palestinian people by forgoing the right to all their territory in order to have peace and perhaps, if they wish, declare a state or independent sovereignty.

Meanwhile., no one can force a people to accept a deal that is less than their rights. Nor can they be forced to declare statehood with anything less that their rightful territories. It’s up to the OCCUPYING Power, as a TRUSTee, to recognize those rights.

In the end the only way the Palestinians can have a state, is when occupation ends.

The declaration of the State of Israel ONLY came into effect AFTER the British Mandate (occupation as a TRUSTee) ENDED . INDEPENDENCE. Look it up. …

September 7, 2010

Is one half of Israel only worth $50 billion?

…It’s actually quite simple. If it hasn’t been legally annexed to, or isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel,
then it’s a territory of what is left of Palestine after the existing states have defined their boundaries in order to be recognized as independent of Palestine….

Shortlink –

Haaretz – Tue, September 07, 2010 Egypt FM: Palestinians could get $50 billion in compensation under peace deal

Within the comments we can read comparisons to the Arab states expelling Jewish folk post 1948 or Germany’s Holocaust reparations and the illegal acquisition of territories of Palestine by Israel. They reflect the complete mis-understanding of the two situations. I do not agree with ANY of the parties actions BTW.

‘real estate’ and ‘territories’ are two quite different things. ‘real estate’ is bought and sold to and by private individuals, corporations, institutions (even state institutions), this does not make it the ‘territory’ of the buyer. ‘territory’ is the stuff of states and/or entities.

Germany and the Arab States confiscated ‘real estate’ belonging to Jewish folk living in their respective state ‘territories’. Israel on the other hand, has illegally acquired some 50% of the ‘territory’ of Palestine. This is roughly equivalent to 50% of the actual Sovereign Territories of Israel itself. Would you value 50% of Israel at only $50 billion?

I doubt anyone in their right mind would. Yet for some folk, it’s an amount too much for the ‘p’alestinians for the equivalent territory. Amazing!

No country in the world recognized Israel as the Jewish State.

Filed under: Israel & the Palestinians — Tags: , , , , , — talknic @ 2:03 pm

…It’s actually quite simple. If it isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel,
then it’s the territory of what remains of Palestine since Jordan and Israel declared their Sovereign Independence from Palestine in 1946 & 1948. Neither are a part of Palestine, nor is it a part of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel


The US didn’t. The UK didn’t. In fact no state gave Israel recognition as the “Jewish state”. All the official recognitions given were to “the State of Israel” as per the Declaration of the “State of Israel”

Odd then, that Israel demands the Palestinians recognize Israel as the ‘Jewish State’. There is no precedent and no legal obligation for the demand. It’s pure BULLSH*TE on the part of Israel…again


And so it was recognized

UNGA Res 181 recognized the RIGHT to have a Jewish State, post 1947. It did not recognize the state, because it did not at that time exist, nor was it’s purpose to recognize it once it did exist. It merely presented recommendations. Recommendations the Jewish Agency accepted.

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