First, find out what isn't true…

September 22, 2010

Negotiations between the State of Israel and the Palestinians. What are they really about?

…It’s actually quite simple. If it isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel,
then it’s a territory of Palestine…


territories illegally acquired by war by Israel-never legally annexed
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The actual legal status of the two parties

Israel is already an Independent Sovereign State. In order to be an Independent Sovereign state, it must have defined boundaries over which it has total control. Israel’s boundaries were defined by the Jewish People’s Council’s acceptance of UNGA Res 181, May 14th 1948. Based on the information disseminated to the International Community of States May 14th 1948 by the provisional Government of Israel, Israel was recognized by the majority of the International Community of States by it’s declared boundaries, over riding the Arab States legal objections. The Israeli Government confirmed the extent of Israel’s sovereignty to the UNSC on May 22nd 1948 and on June 15th 1949.

Israel has never legally annexed ANY territories outside of it’s declared Sovereignty. Even territory ‘acquired’ by force/war, defensive or aggressive, must be legally annexed, via an agreement with the entity having territories annexed.

Within Israel’s actual Sovereign boundaries, it has every right to defend itself against all comers in accordance with the UN Charter, International Law, The Laws of War and the GC’s it has ratified. It can make any laws it wishes.

Outside of it’s Sovereign boundaries, in territories ‘acquired’ by war by 1950, illegally annexed “territories occupied” and in other “territories occupied”, it comes under the scrutiny of the UN/UNSC and the other Regional Powers, who BTW have a right to military intervention.

Entity of Palestine

Palestine was a provisional State under the Mandate. It’s borders were legally defined by default by the Internationally acknowledged boundaries of the Sovereign states surrounding it. Including Israel, the day it was declared.

Under the British Mandate, all citizens of Palestine were Palestinians. (including Jewish folk). TransJordan meanwhile was under a separate administration, a state without full independence. In 1946 TransJordan achieved full Independence. Only the folk who lived in the area that became TransJordan had automatic right to become Jordanian citizens. Folk outside the area did not.

What remained of Palestine after Jordan’s independence, was still called Palestine until Israel was declared independent of Palestine May 14th 1948. What remains of Palestine is still called Palestine and it is still a provisional State. It’s status has never been legally altered.

Neither the Jewish homeland state or Jordan are in or a part of Palestine, having declared their Independence from it. Furthermore, corpus separatum was not instituted over Jerusalem, none of Jerusalem was within Israel’s declared sovereignty and Israel has never legally annexed ANY territory. Jerusalem’s status as part of Palestine, has never legally changed.

In order for an entity to declare itself an Independent Sovereign State, it must A) control all of it’s declared territories B) Be completely free of all dependencies on or imposed by other entities C) the declaration must be made by a non-political party, representing all the people of the entity, regardless of their political preferences. (E.g., the Jewish People’s Council, a non political body, formed specifically to declare statehood and to last only until a State Government has been formed. A state must be formed before a State Government can exist)

Throughout it’s entire history Palestine has always had some entity in control of all or some of it’s territories. It has never had the opportunity to miss AND Palestine has not had a name change since the Roman era. It’s citizens are still Palestinians.

Israel is being asked to adhere to it’s voluntary obligations to the UN Charter, the Conventions it has ratified and it’s voluntary obligations to International Law. This is a obligation, negotiations or no negotiations.

So what do the negotiations actually represent?

Are they negotiating Israel making concessions to the Palestinians? No. Israel cannot make a concession with something that is not Israeli. Under Israel’s voluntary obligations, territories acquired by war and the illegal annexation of “territories occupied” are simply not within the extent of Israel’s Internationally recognized Sovereignty.

Is a peace agreement being negotiated? No. A peace agreement cannot be made until Palestine has been declared a State and a State Government has been elected and a Palestinian declaration of Independence cannot come into effect under ANY form of occupation or control by another entity. The Israeli declaration of the State of Israel did not come into effect until “ minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time”, AFTER the British Mandate (occupation) ended. Israel must first withdraw before a a state can be recognized AND before peace agreement is fully effective. (see the Egypt Israeli Peace Agreement)

Is RoR being negotiate? No RoR is an individual right. Under which the Israeli Government has the right to veto any application that does not met the criteria. The Palestinian leadership can only demand Israel recognize the right.

The official Palestinian demand for recognition of RoR is based on UNGA Res 194 which is in turn based on the UNHCR definition. It does not include all lineal descendants. People must have lived in the region of return.

What IS being negotiated : is how generous the Palestinians will be in helping Israel out of the deep ILLEGAL HOLE it has dug for it’s citizens. The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been living OUTSIDE of Israel’s Sovereign territories.

The Palestinians only ask for their legal rights.

Israel asks for the right to territory which is not it’s own



  1. “The Arab occupation in the Land of Israel is illegal under international law.”

    Which resolution? Number, year! Which part, which section? What does it say? Links? Facts? Articles?
    None of the above!

    Comment by thankgodimatheist — November 1, 2010 @ 4:26 am

    • Max didn’t come back….wonder why

      Comment by talknic — January 13, 2011 @ 1:47 pm

  2. The Arab occupation in the Land of Israel is illegal under international law. It is also immoral. Israel is the cradle of Jewish civilization. Gaza, Hebron, Ramallah will always be Jewish lands.

    Comment by maximalistNarrative — October 31, 2010 @ 8:36 am

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