First, find out what isn't true…

Not tolerated here… th’ rules rule. OK.

It’s simple: False accusations, lies, smearing, bigotry, racism, bad language, the purposeful, repetitious, lower casing of ‘a’rabs, ‘p’alestinians, ‘j’ews etc , off topic posts and posters who do not substantiate their claims … will be relegated to the trash.

The following words are not tolerated

“….”

“……..”

“…. …!”

“….!”

“…. ….”

“……..”

:-)

18 Comments »

  1. You’ve stated that Israel never attempted to annex the territory it captured in the 1947/48 war, prior to its admission to the UN. I believe that is incorrect. The Area of Jurisdiction and Powers Ordinance, 5708-1948 passed on 9/22/48 (made retroactive to 5/15), extended Israeli law to the captured territories.

    Comment by pt — February 28, 2015 @ 9:50 pm

    • @ pt
      Problem 1): International and Customary International Law trumps domestic law

      Problem 2). ” captured territories” = captured by Israeli military.

      Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); October 18, 1907 Art. 42 SECTION III
      “Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.”

      Problem 3). It has been illegal to acquire territory by war since at least 1933, any war! Ratified by the USA 1934. Which is why even the US does not have its embassy in Jerusalem

      Statement by the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT On May 22, 1948 UNSC S/766 the Provisional Government of Israel answered questions addressed to the “Jewish authorities in Palestine”
      Question (a): Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947?
      “In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed.” … ” the Government of the State of Israel operates in parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel

      Problem 4). Annexation under Customary International Law is by agreement, bilateral! See the US annexation of Texas, by agreement with the legitimate citizens of Texas, same Hawaii, same Alaska (long after it was bought, there was an agreement with the then Russian citizens of Alaska before annexation took pace and they became US citizens. By adopting the legal custom of having an agreement, the US was instrumental in that legal custom eventually passing into Customary International Law and being codified in the UN Charter Chapt 1 Art 2. (4) All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations..

      By which agreement has Israel legally annexed any territories captured in war? Date, co-signatories …. thx … Good luck.

      Comment by talknic — March 11, 2015 @ 11:52 am

      • You haven’t addressed my comment.
        I believe you had stated that Israel never attempted to annex the territory it captured, prior to its admission to the UN.
        I demonstrated that it had. I really had no opinion as to the legality of that attempt.
        Having read you arguments, and thought about it; I don’t think you make a strong case. Israel’s action may have been illegal,
        I don’t know, a court would have to decide that.

        Problem 1). Not necessarily. Have you ever read a legal brief or opinion explaining the relationship between domestic law and international law.
        It can get complicated. If you had you wouldn’t be making such sweeping generalizations. But let’s say you are correct for the sake of argument – it has no bearing on my opinion.

        2) I don’t get your point. Yes Israel captured territory. Yes they occupied it for a time. The source you cited has no relevance to anything beyond that. They then attempted to annex it. The question is whether that was legal or not.

        3) No so. The US and 19 countries in Latin American signed the Montevideo treaty (convention).(four of them never ratified it) No other countries in Europe, Asia or Africa signed. A treaty between countries in the Americas does not constrain Israel or any non contracting parties. To prove that it did you would have to prove that ARTICLE 11, (not the other articles), had passed into CIL. Can you provide an authoritative legal source, (court case or legal argument) that demonstrates that.
        If the US felt that because of the convention that they could not recognize Israel’s acquiring of territory in 1947/47, that is their right – it doesn’t make what Israel, a non signee, did, illegal.

        Interestingly, the UNSC passed a resolution in 1993 (808 referencing report S/25704) noting that Geneva IV had passed into CIL, in order set up the tribunal for former Yugoslavia. Prior to that, I assume, a case could be made that the relative articles in Geneva IV only applied to contracting parties, before it became accepted as CIL.

        4) You have shown that the US behaved a certain way. You have not proved that it is CIL. In fact the UN article you cited doesn’t mention how annexations, which can, in certain circumstances be legal, are to be implemented.

        5) You have shown that Israel was dishonest and unethical when they made declarations, assuming they knew they would subsequently attempt to annex territory ALREADY captured. You have not shown that they did anything Illegal. Please provide an authoritative legal source which says that nations declare their borders unilaterally and that such declarations have legal weight. Also what form those declarations need to take.

        If the nations that recognized Israel based on that declaration of borders felt they were mislead they could have taken punitive action, amongst other things, by refusing to recognize Israel’s annexation. They appear not to have done so – if fact Israel was subsequently admitted to the UN.

        Comment by _pt — March 19, 2015 @ 1:10 am

        • @_pt “You haven’t addressed my comment.”

          Yes I did. It’s still there. It’s you who have not been able to provide what I requested.

          “Interestingly, the UNSC passed a resolution in 1993 (808 referencing report S/25704) noting that Geneva IV had passed into CIL, in order set up the tribunal for former Yugoslavia.”

          Interestingly UNSC res 808 doesn’t mention S/25704 http://www.nato.int/ifor/un/u930222a.htm

          Comment by talknic — March 19, 2015 @ 1:48 am

          • S/25704 is the report requested in paragraph 2. of 808; http://www.icty.org/x/file/Legal%20Library/Statute/statute_re808_1993_en.pdf
            I believe I did answer your question, but since I didn’t really lay it out explicitly I can see why you thought not.
            There are no agreements. With regard to the territory captured in 1967,that is why it is still occupied territory.
            With regard to the territory annexed in 1948, no agreement was necessary.
            If the issue were to go to court – that court would only consider laws as they existed in 1948.

            Comment by _pt — May 13, 2015 @ 11:09 pm

            • @ _pt “S/25704 is the report requested in paragraph 2. of 808; http://www.icty.org/x/file/Legal%20Library/Statute/statute_re808_1993_en.pdf

              That’s 2. at paragraph 14

              “There are no agreements. With regard to the territory captured in 1967,that is why it is still occupied territory.”

              There are no final status agreements WR to territories captured in 1948.

              “With regard to the territory annexed in 1948, no agreement was necessary”

              Interesting theory… it has been illegal to acquire territory by war since at least 1933, any war!
              .
              “If the issue were to go to court – that court would only consider laws as they existed in 1948”

              Uh huh. UN Charter 1945. Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States 1933. Got any more bullsh*t?

              Comment by talknic — May 27, 2015 @ 2:18 am

              • This addresses my own question about The Area of Jurisdiction and Powers Ordinance, posted elsewhere. clearly this contradicts your statement that Israel has never tried to officially annex these areas, regardless of the Internation Law situation, your comment must be inaccurate unless you can demonstrate that said ordinance is not de facto annexation.

                Comment by andrewsz8757 — December 22, 2015 @ 4:39 pm

                • The annexation of territories the Israeli Government itself claimed on May 22nd 1948 were “outside the State of Israel” … “in Palestine” requires the agreement of the legitimate citizens of the territories to be annexed. No such agreement exists

                  The US, in adopting the legal custom of having an agreement or treaty with representatives of the legitimate citizens of territories to be annexed ( see the annexation of Texas ), was instrumental in that legal custom passing into Customary International Law which in turn was instrumental in the formulation and adoption of the notions of self determination inherent in the convention on human rights

                  BTW de facto is not de jure

                  Comment by talknic — December 23, 2015 @ 5:32 am

  2. Hello,
    most Arabs think that the Jewish people of Israel are counterfeit! Meaning that the
    so called European Jews are descended from Khazars! There is a genealogist by the name
    of Dr. Eran Elhaik from John Hopkins that is making these claims from DNA findings! Is there
    some truth to this or is this false??

    Comment by H.B. — January 26, 2014 @ 5:37 pm

    • It is irrelevant to the legal status of Israel’s sovereign extent and Israel’s ongoing illegal activities in non-Israeli territories. Likewise it is irrelevant to the Palestinians legal rights under the Laws and UN Charter Israel obliged itself to uphold.

      The Law and the UN Charter are not based on DNA.

      Comment by talknic — January 27, 2014 @ 10:38 pm

  3. Hello,
    A while back I asked a question about are the Christians mistreated in Israel
    but couldn’t find the response!

    Comment by H.B. — January 26, 2014 @ 5:26 pm

    • I don’t remember replying. Sorry.

      Jewish forces dispossessed Muslims and Christians in 1948/1949.

      In territories under Israeli occupation (but illegally claimed by Israel) Muslims and Christian Palestinians are treated the same. Atrociously.

      Meanwhile “in Israel” the government is still attempting to maintain a Jewish majority state, one might surmise that Christians are tolerated because Christians in the US are generally supportive of the Jewish state, despite it being in breach of International Law and the UN Charter.

      Comment by talknic — January 27, 2014 @ 10:53 pm

  4. Absolutely Incredible Site! A monumental achievement! The world owes you a great debt of gratitude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    We wholeheartedly thank you for this amazing effort and display of courage!

    Comment by Ed — September 12, 2012 @ 12:56 am

    • Thanks. No courage, just determination to find some form of justice :-)

      Comment by talknic — September 12, 2012 @ 5:56 am

  5. Talknic pls email brel1@yahoo.com ref your excellent work on wikipedia.

    Comment by Er — July 18, 2012 @ 8:41 pm

    • LOL…. Now indefinitely banned from WikI/Pedia.

      To be honest, the I/P issue on Wiki is a thorough mess created by editors attempting to suppress information they don’t like. It should have a BIG WARNING SIGN for readers.

      Comment by talknic — July 19, 2012 @ 7:57 am

  6. Do you think hatred against Muslims is rising?

    Comment by Anonymous — December 28, 2011 @ 7:51 am

    • Yes. A full answer would require more time than I have at the moment. Needless to say there are millions of Muslims who have integrated peacefully into Western Society, whereas the Mid Eastern Arab States were for years under the thumb of Western suppression. Kept poor and back, in order to serve the West’s colonial and material interests. Muslims number some billion or so. If they were a real threat to the world, we’d have been living under their thumbs decades ago.

      Comment by talknic — December 29, 2011 @ 9:21 am


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