First, find out what isn't true…

Countering the Israeli propagandistas

…It’s actually quite simple. If it isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel,
then it’s a territory of Palestine…

ShortLink http://wp.me/PDB7k-1d

Propagandists do not care that their twaddle might be refuted. With the internet, once a story is out, it’s out for ever, even if it is retracted, there’ll still be a copy floating around in cyberspace for someone to propagate, either willingly or naively. They depend on folk not checking. Truthfullness and facts are not their business. Propaganda is.

They will concoct purposefully misleading headlines. They’re not propagating their fallacies because they’re honest. They’re trying to justify. Honesty does not come into the equation. They will cheat, they will lie. They will perpetuate fallacies.

They will deny everything, purposefully derail. Skirt around reasonable questions. And no matter what evidence you put before them, they will come back with the same olde bullsh*te time and time again. They will try to infuriate you and make concerted efforts to have you banned from talk boards. They will slur, insult, abuse, bear false witness. They are, without a doubt, some of the most vile, dishonest people on the planet. You cannot take ANYTHING they say at face value.

The best tactic is to simply disprove their nonsense with primary source information. Don’t engage in personal attacks. Don’t abuse. Deal only with the assertions and claims made by the person you are countering. Quote them verbatim and insist they also quote you verbatim. It will infuriate them to the point where they will reveal themselves for what they are. And it ain’t very nice.

Watch out for

Conflation: The Israeli Government and it’s policies, is not ‘Jews’. Israel is not ‘Jews’.
Bigots: Those who purposefully and repeatedly lower case ‘a’rabs, ‘p’alestinians, ‘m’uslims, ‘i’slam, but otherwise upper case all other names. Like wise those who do the same to ‘j’ews, ‘j’udaism, ‘i’srael. Call them on it. It’s not a typo, not a mistake, not a spelling or grammar error, it is bigotry. Purposefully demeaning.

If you are debating something about an IAEA report, use actual IAEA report. Same for HRW, Amnesty

If the Israeli Government said something, it will very likely be here Israeli Government or Knesset or jcpa or Jewish Virtual Library – They are all excellent repositories and cannot be called Antisemitic.

Avalon Law – Yale University a good non-partisan repository for Declarations, UN / UNSC Resolutions and other documents on the Palestine / Israel issue
Also for the Laws of War and Geneva Conventions
International Committee of the Red Cross The Geneva Conventions Explained

Anyone can edit Wiki. If you must use it, follow the Wiki links to primary sources wherever possible. Check when the Wiki entry was last edited. I have watched it change mid-debate and then found those changes reflected in the very debate I had been engaged in.

News Services are all partisan and rife with propaganda, un-named sources and/or the dubious ‘officials said’ and cherry picked details. Although news services are the last place for non-partisan reports, they quite often turn up articles like this

PRIOR to the Israeli dis-engagement of Gaza and the subsequent reports of the people of Gaza destroying the hundreds of greenhouses so ‘generously donated’ by the departing settlers Israeli Settlers Demolish Greenhouses and Gaza Jobs

When someone says there are 200,000 Google hits saying things like “President Mahmoud Armejinedad threatened to wipe Israel off the Map”, ask them how many are repeats of repeats of repeats. He actually only said it ONCE and was quoting a prediction made by the long dead Ayatollah Khomeini. Words to the effect of “Our dear Imam said that ‘the occupying regime in Jerusalem will be wiped off the map (or disappear from the sands of time)’…”

If for example we accept these versions, it doesn’t say A) Iran will do anything towards the regime’s predicted demise B) A ‘regime’ is not Israel, it’s a Government C) Jerusalem is not Israel, it’s where the Government sits. You will find some folk will misconstrue everything and anything to suit their cause.

Request the primary source and corroboration. For example: Who has corroborated the Memri & PMW translations Memri & PMW provide. If the reader cannot read the lingo, how are they or you to know Memri & PMW are accurate?

If someone offers a news report, look for: the author / the actual “quotes” / cherry picking / parenthesis [added by the author] / the actual source (another newspaper?) / the date. Follow links through to the source. Check the about section of sources. Who funds them. Look up WHOIS to find out who and where the site is operated by and from. Scrape every bit of information clean.

Good luck. :-)

9 Comments »

  1. “Propagandists do not care that their twaddle might be refuted”

    I would appreciate some advice on how to counter this blatant piece of propaganda:

    Acadia Yosef, a former chief rabbi of Israel said;

    “Goyim [non-Jews] are like donkey’s, born only to serve us.

    http://jewishpeacenews.blogspot.com/2010/12/jonathan-cook-hate-gentile-israels.html

    Comment by Alec Ward — December 31, 2011 @ 12:47 pm

    • Hi Alec

      Well, it isn’t racist as Cook claims, as it applies to the Goyim, who are not a race. Nor are we (Jews) for that matter

      It is however, blatant bigotry, even if said by a Rabbi. That the Rabbi doesn’t recognize it as bigotry, probably shows he’s just another raving nut case and anyone supporting the Rabbi is likewise.

      Probably best countered by laughing and/or reversing roles – i.e., // if I was to say “Jews are like donkey’s, born only to serve non-Jews” I’d be a bigot or antisemitic. Right? // and/or give them an address such as this // for further information //

      Cheers

      Comment by talknic — January 1, 2012 @ 1:27 pm


  2. Hi CJ,

    Thanks a lot for the information. Wow, it looks like you have done a lot of research. Great. I will invite my friends to come over here and have a look at your thoughts.

    Thanks again. Much appreciated.

    Comment by Anonymous — June 7, 2010 @ 3:34 am


  3. (Moved & continued HERE )

    Hi there,
    Israel was within it’s rights to intercept. San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994

    However the nature of the intercept begs a few questions and the Israeli justifications are as full of holes as they are bizarre.

    The Israeli’s claim the rappelling personnel wore asbestos gloves, making it impossible to use their weapons. Never heard of asbestos gloves in rappelling. One needs to be able to feel the rope, a light LEATHER glove is sometimes used so that the rope can be felt through the glove. Most folk’ll tell you it’s better to have full feel of the rope, no gloves at all. ( your life is in your hands ) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22rappelling+equipment%22+%22asbestos+gloves%22.

    The rappelling rope passes through a figure 8 or belay device. A figure 8 twists the rope, because of the ‘lay’ of the internal fibres, eventually forming kinks/knots, same as an electrical extension cord develops knots when not rolled up using the ‘under over’ method

    Modern military rappells on a rope usually use a belaying Device (BDs). Small, light weight, can be easily released, does not twist the rope, requires minimal hand pressure. I’ve used BDs & figure 8 AND taken photos/video, mid air, using my free hand and I’m no expert. In fact not at all fond of swing around on a rope mid air.

    However looking closely at the video available, it seems they’re using a ‘silk’ rather than a rope as it varies in thickness. A ‘silk’ is a long length of cloth used by circus and burlesque performers.

    The NY Times reports that the use of plastic/rubber bullets was planned and WERE fired from above.. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/world/europe/05reconstruct.html?pagewanted=2&partner=rss&emc=rss/ “The crack of an Israeli sound grenade and a hail of rubber bullets from above were supposed to disperse activists, but instead set them in motion. ”

    So again it seems the Israeli bullshit vendors have been busy at work..LYING….. again! One needs to double check ANYTHING put out by Israel concerning the Palestinians. They LIE and LIE and LIE again.

    The some of the weapons seized – life threatening pepper spray Personal Pak

    Giant knife :-) What a cutie. No doubt sharper but not as efficient as a bullet

    Israeli Govt website shows us the ‘Weapons’ cache

    For the most part, they look like tools found on any ship. An axe is a tool on a ship. They’re in EVERY fire cabinet. A knife is a tool on a ship. Every sailor has one. The galley has heaps of knives. A hammer is a tool on a ship. So is a &*&^% spanner. All ships carry sticks, (wood), broom handles, steel rods and pipes, ropes, cables, chain. It’s quite NORMAL ON A SHIP…FFS!! When you’re at sea you cannot just call into a hardware store.

    The “weapons cache” seems to be a few suspect knives.

    Comment by talknic — June 6, 2010 @ 4:03 am


  4. Hi CJ,

    Are you going to post something on recent flotilla attack? I always appreciate your honest and unbiased analysis.

    Thanks.

    Comment by Anonymous — June 5, 2010 @ 7:25 pm


  5. Hi anonymous

    All the seasons best to you too. (from a nom de plume :-)

    “Is Gaza still considered OCCUPIED under international law? Can you give me irrefutable source on this? Also, Can you give me more than one source on this? The CNN article below deals with this question: Is Gaza still considered OCCUPIED?
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/06/israel.gaza.occupation.question/

    The article itself is non authoritative, there in all likelihood with the express purpose of sewing the seeds of doubt.

    The Israeli supreme court’s ruling that Israel “had no effective control over what occurred” inside Gaza, is almost childish. If they don’t allow building materials in, they control what can and what cannot be built in Gaza. If they do not allow Palestinian politicians to travel between the West Bank and Gaza, factions will develop. Divide and conquer. As olde as war itself.

    If there is a UNSC resolution on the matter, the UNSC is the last word and an irrefutable source. All UNSC resolutions are based in International Law, the UN Charter, the Law of War and the Conventions. Anything other than the exact words of the resolution are secondary. Any true interpretation must be on the exact words.

    (Cast Lead) 8 January 2009 UNSC Res 1860
    //Recalling all of its relevant resolutions, including resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002), 1515 (2003) and 1850 (2008), Stressing that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967 and will be a part of the Palestinian state//

    —–

    The article itself contains some gems worthy of the ‘talents’ of Josh Levs and his ilk.

    CNN //In 1948, Egypt gained control of Gaza during the Arab-Israeli war — the same war that ultimately led to Israel’s independence as a nation.//

    In the first part, Israel and Egypt agreed by the armistice lines in the 1949/50 armistice agreement, that Egypt would occupy Gaza. After the ’67 war, UNSC Res 242 left Gaza under the occupation of Israel, a ‘territory occupied’. It was illegal for Israel to have Israeli citizens as settlers in ‘territories occupied’, they were required to remove them from Gaza regardless of their dis-engagement plan.

    The second part “the same war that ultimately led to Israel’s independence as a nation” is an often used notion to give validity to Israel’s illegal acquisition of territories it had taken by war by 1949. None of which have ever been annexed to Israel

    Israel was an Independent nation from the moment the Jewish People’s Council Declared Sovereignty over the boundaries recommended UNGA resolution 181, 14th May 1948. Israel informed the International Community of States of it’s Declaration of a Jewish State, accepting the boundaries and conditions of Res 181 in order to be recognized. The majority of the International Community of state recognized Israel’s Sovereignty over those boundaries, based on that notification, over riding the Arab states objections.

    You will also encounter the argument that Israel was only given de facto recognition. This is also a fallacy. Israel’s sovereignty was given de jure recognition.

    Only the Provisional Government was given de facto recognition, because it was only a provisional Government. De jure recognition was granted by the US on the 31st January 1949 when a permanent government was elected.

    Back to CNN //Mansour said. “Gaza is a great place, it should be a very advanced place. Israel was willing to develop it. … We want to make it one of the most advanced areas of the Middle East. There could be tourism, there’s natural gas, there’s so much resources to use in Gaza.”//

    The Israeli plans to ‘develop Gaza’ were illegitimate and arrogant to the extreme. You’ll often hear it said that the glass houses were a multi million dollar business for Gaza. In fact, Israel and it’s illegal settlers had free land, free water, cheap labour and all profits went to Israelis. The only thing the Palestinians got, was an opportunity to work for shite wages in order to put millions into the pockets of illegal settlers.

    You’ll also hear that the Palestinians destroyed all the glass houses the Israelis gave them. However, this news item is from BEFORE the dis-engagement Shows the propaganda AFTER dis-engagement was mostly bullshite!

    The settlers were PAID not to dismantle or destroy the glass houses. NYT //Of the roughly 1,000 acres of agricultural land that were under greenhouses in the 21 Israeli settlements in Gaza, only 500 acres remain – creating significant doubts that the greenhouses could be handed over to the Palestinians as “a living business,” the goal cited by the Israeli coordinator of the pullout, Eival Giladi.//

    In respect to UNSC resolutions. On examination you will see that the US almost always abstains from voting on any resolution involving a condemnation or demand on Israel to take action (UN Charter – chapter six). The US would rather others make the decision, hoping that a majority will abstain and the resolution will not see the light of day.

    On UNSC resolutions aimed at taking action against Israel (UN Charter – chapter seven), the US will use it’s veto vote to torpedo the resolution completely.

    However, any UNSC resolution that is passed condemning or demanding Israel take action, still stands, the Laws, the UN Charter and the conventions on which it is based still stand and the culprit is still in breach. Only action has been prevented.

    Hope his helps.

    Comment by talknic — December 25, 2009 @ 5:29 pm


  6. The CNN article below deals with this question: Is Gaza still considered OCCUPIED?

    The UN position, US position and Israel/Hamas positions are cited in the article.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/06/israel.gaza.occupation.question/

    In summary: The UN says ‘Yes, it is still occupied’ and the Israeli supreme court says ‘Israel disengaged from Gaza’

    ——-
    The true situation: Gaza suffers from Land-blockade, sea-blockade and air-blockade by the Israeli war machine.

    Israel says, this is self-defense.

    The water is contaminated, and babies are born sick.

    Sewage treatment facilities were bombed. Building materials are not allowed in.

    Gaza is a humanitarian (and environmental) disaster happening before our own eyes.
    —-
    One way of getting information from irrefutable sources, my guess would be, to submit one official request to Israel’s Supreme Court and another to the UN. Still, this may depends on what people consider ‘irrefutable source’

    Comment by AnonymousToo — December 25, 2009 @ 10:44 am

  7. Hi CJ, how are you? Happy holidays!!!

    I have a question on the legal status of Gaza.

    Is Gaza still considered OCCUPIED under international law?

    Can you give me irrefutable source on this? Also, Can you give me more than one source on this?

    Thank you.

    Comment by Anonymous — December 25, 2009 @ 9:04 am

    • Yes. the UNSC adopted Res 1860 note the date 2009, after ‘disengagement’.

      “Recalling all of its relevant resolutions, including resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002), 1515 (2003) and 1850 (2008),
      Stressing that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967 and will be a part of the Palestinian state

      Furthermore Israel has made numerous incursions into Gaza without a resolution condemning it for those incursions. Were it not the Occupying Power, it would be considered an invasion of a non self-governing territory (see Chapt XI UN Charter) and the UNSC would be obliged to pass a Chapter VI resolution condemning Israel. The US would of course abstain.

      Comment by talknic — January 1, 2012 @ 1:38 pm


RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Blog at WordPress.com.

%d bloggers like this: