ShortLink http://wp.me/pDB7k-1c2
Who does Israel think it’s fooling with fake photos?
1) The water pipes either side are completely un-damaged. It simply DOES NOT look like a rocket of that diameter has buried the majority of its length in the earth!
It’s OBVIOUSLY fake!
2) A rocket might have struck this house at some time, but there’s no signs of charring from a grad explosion WHAT SO EVER!!!
Is it a photo of demolition work?
See how Israel’s Magic Sofa Chairs resist the charring and shrapnel you’d expect to see from a rocket explosion large enough to cause this amount of damage!
See how Israel’s Magic Sofa Chairs bury themselves under the rubble
The amount of damage it seems, was caused by the explosion of two gas cylinders allegedly set off by a grad rocket. Oddly there are no photos of the remnants of the alleged rocket. If it completely disintegrated, one would expect far more damage and a lot of charring.
——-
Compare the kind of destruction wrought on Palestine to that on Israel
Destruction in Gaza ———- Destruction in Israel
The Palestinians have no where to flee the war zone, not even the sea. Under the 2005 agreement and the Israeli/Egypt Peace Treaty Israel has had all the crossings closed including those with Egypt. Only an Occupying Power has this right.
In the bigger picture, the Palestinians ask for far less than their LEGAL rights under the Laws and UN Charter which Israel is obliged to follow. Abbas offered in front of the world at the UN to concede 78% of their rightful territory for peace, Meanwhile while Israel offers nothing and makes demands that have absolutely no legal basis what so ever and continues its illegal expansionist policies.
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BTW, you really should leave the discussion about international law to those who have a vague notion of what they are talking about.
You’re entitled to your say of course, like everybody else. But as you have no remote idea at all on the subject, especially as it relates to Israel and the antistate of
“palestine”, all you are doing is spitting mud in the face of the already blind.
Comment by geoffff — October 6, 2014 @ 4:15 am
You’ve not shown any knowledge or understanding of International Law and you haven’t dis-proved anything pal.
“antistate of “palestine” “
Cute. Problem is Palestine has been recognized by the majority of the International Comity of Nations and given status as an observer “state” by the UN
Comment by talknic — October 6, 2014 @ 11:49 pm
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1577324
One of hundreds of opinions from those who are qualified to have one and who has done the work.
No “occupation” of Gaza in law
No occupation of “Judea and Samaria” in law
Jerusalem is the indivisible and eternal capital of the state of Israel in law.
Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention has absolutely no application at law to the Israeli towns in Judea and Samaria in any way whatsoever
And that’s the law.
Suck it up. Move on. Go after some real criminals. Hamas, PLO, IJ and the other murder gang bosses who subjugate Arab Muslims and everybody else who come within their grip
http://geofffff.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/alp-debases-international-law.html
http://geofffff.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/the-truth-about-un.html
Comment by geoffff — October 7, 2014 @ 10:48 am
“One of hundreds of opinions from those who are qualified to have one and who has done the work”
UNSC resolutions based on the Law are NOT mere opinions. UNSC resolutions tell an entirely different story to your propaganda source.
“No “occupation” of Gaza in law”
How is it that Israel controls all goods entering and exiting Gaza from and thru Egypt? How is it that Israel collects the taxes and can withhold them? How was it that Israel could demand Egypt close its crossings with Gaza during Israel’s invasions? How is it that Israel is allowed to control all Palestinian territorial waters of the coast of Gaza? How is it that Israeli is permitted to control all Palestinian airspace over Gaza? How is it that Israel is permitted at any time to make incursions into Gaza without first making a declaration to the UNSC as required by Chapt VII of the UN Charter when it invades non-Israeli territory?
2009 is after 2005….
“No occupation of “Judea and Samaria” in law”
Sure pal….
So… when did Israel un-occupy ….
“Jerusalem is the indivisible and eternal capital of the state of Israel in law.”
Uh huh.
“Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention has absolutely no application at law to the Israeli towns in Judea and Samaria in any way whatsoever”
Problem with your silly theory is the fact that Jordan was a UN Member state in 1967 , a Regional and High Contracting Power as a signatory to GC IV with sovereignty by agreement according to the JCPA over the West Bank as it was officially renamed by the sovereign. Unlike Israel’s condemned, illegal, unilateral, recognized by no-one, annexation of East Jerusalem, Jordan’s bilateral annexation of the West Bank as a trustee only (Session: 12-II Date: May 1950). was not condemned under law by the UNSC.
“And that’s the law.”
The UNSC says it ain’t pal.
Comment by talknic — October 7, 2014 @ 1:19 pm
Of all the swinish pig ignorant fart talking hypocritical blood dripping spit in your face lying racist memes used to attack and de-legitimise Israel, without question the worst is this incessant vile brain dead muck about Israel being in breach of international law.
Come on admit it. The only thing you think is illegal is Jews living outside the transition ghetto that you and your pals have designated for them. Or living anywhere. A place to hold them pending transportation.
Fat chance. The Jews have an army this time. Much to your life long obsessive suffering about this flagrant breach of the right way of the world .
Suck it up. Try reading a book.
pal.
Comment by geoffff — October 7, 2014 @ 10:41 pm
“Of all the swinish pig ignorant fart talking hypocritical blood dripping spit in your face lying racist memes used to attack and de-legitimise Israel, without question the worst is this incessant vile brain dead muck about Israel being in breach of international law”
A) You have failed to point out any hypocrisy. You have also failed to disprove the fact that Israel is in breach of International Law as described by the UNSC and in the opinion of the International Court of Justice
B) Israelis are not a race. Nor are Jews. Another failure on your part .
C ) The UN/UNSC bases its resolution on the law and on the official declarations made by states and their representatives. The Israeli Govt proclaimed Israel’s sovereign extent and asked to be recognized as “ an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947…” Israel was subsequently recognized as such. No more, no less.
D) Israel has never legally acquired any further territories. No further territories have ever been legally annexed to Israel and no country in the International Comity of Nations or the United Nations recognizes any further territories as Israeli.
E) It has been illegal to acquire territory by war since at least 1933, under the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States. See also Schwebel, Lautherpacht, Herzog
F) Israel proclaimed that it would adhere to ” the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law.”
G) Israel has failed, resulting in hundreds of UNSC resolutions affording Israel the opportunity to adhere to the binding Laws and Conventions those resolutions re-affirm and emphasize.
H) Israel has failed. Instead illegally annexing, illegally settling, continuing to ignore the law, the UN Charter and relative conventions,
I) Go complain to the Israeli Govt and the Zionist’s stupid, illegal, Greater Israel Movement.
“Come on admit it. The only thing you think is illegal is Jews living outside the transition ghetto that you and your pals have designated for them”
A) Why should anyone admit to the nonsense you write conflating Jews with Israelis? Your pathetic Hasbara drivel doesn’t pass the slightest scrutiny
B) ALL Israelis, including non-Jews, are prohibited by Law from illegally settling in non-Israeli territories under Israeli occupation. In fact Israeli law since 1948 prohibits all Israeli citizens and residents from entering the territory of any entity hostile to the State of Israel. Israel shows its own special brand of blatant hypocrisy allowing illegal settlers into territories under Israeli military occupation
C) The Israeli Government designated the extent of Israeli sovereignty you stupid stupid person
“The Jews have an army this time”
Really … What’s the name of this Jewish army? Israel has an army. Australia has an army. The US has an army. In fact most states where Jews live have an army. Those armies serve the citizens of those states, incl their Jewish citizens, even in Iran!
Normal people when shown indisputable facts, usually learn from them. You’re a pathetic propagandist for Israel who has no intention of learning anything no matter how factual and when you’re faced with informed and debate, all you can do is splutter and rant. It’s cute. It’s hilarious. Keep up th’ good work.
Comment by talknic — October 8, 2014 @ 5:57 am
You’re a bigot mate.
It really sticks in your craw doesn’t it?
That bloody army.
It’s unnatural. It’s an offence against law and nature. Jews aren’t meant to fight back, live in freedom and prosper. Jews aren’t
meant to defend themselves and especially not win. The few million Jews left in the world need to be taught their place by people like you.
You’re a sad little man who will die in great frustration in the certain knowledge that Israel not only lives! Israel Thrives!
I followed a few of those links. I get the message. There is only one reason why no one engages with you.
It is infra dig. You obviously have some kind of half crazed obsession. Anyone who quotes from a letter from a Yeshuv delegate in 1948 as a reason in law why Israel must pull back to the partition lines of 1947 in 2014 really should be playing this theme as his blog background.
pal
Comment by geoffff — October 8, 2014 @ 8:14 am
“You’re a bigot mate”
Strange …. you’ve not shown any bigotry on my part.
“It really sticks in your craw doesn’t it?
That bloody army.”
Uh? Israel, like any other country is allowed an army. The right to self defense. Like other countries, Israel does not have any right to act illegally as an Occupying Power over non-Israeli territories. I.e., in territories the Israeli Government OFFICIALLY claimed were “outside the State of Israel” … “in Palestine”
“It’s unnatural. It’s an offence against law and nature. Jews aren’t meant to fight back, live in freedom and prosper. Jews aren’t meant to defend themselves and especially not win. “
If you say so buster …. I haven’t. Your fantasy, you’re drivel.
“You’re a sad little man who will die in great frustration in the certain knowledge that Israel not only lives! Israel Thrives!”
WOW!!! Basing your accusations on YOUR OWN drivel is hilarious stuff geoffff. Meanwhile, great for Israel. Now if it would simply keep to its own territory, stop illegally settling its citizens in other folks territory, adhere to its legal obligations.
“I followed a few of those links. I get the message.”
Find anything you can dis-prove? I’ll wait ……
“There is only one reason why no one engages with you.”
What’re you doing pal?
“Anyone who quotes from a letter from a Yeshuv delegate in 1948 as a reason in law why Israel must pull back to the partition lines of 1947 in 2014”
You don’t like the official record of the Jewish Agency or the Israeli Government because the official record shows them as liars… Go bitch to the Zionist Federation, they’re the idiots who’ve led Israel into its legal quagmire and 66 years of war by not sticking to the obligations expected of states.
Comment by talknic — October 8, 2014 @ 11:19 am
You’re a crackpot of course but I have to admit I find you entertaining. I’m not here to engage with you. I’m here to amuse myself and to pursue an interest in what makes the extremist mind work. Also to get fodder for my blog. The pickings here are rich.
You see, your base proposition, that Israel (and Israelis) are illegal beyond the pre-state partition lines, is so out there in orbit west of Pluto that it is difficult to believe that you actually believe it yourself, or care that anyone else does. What is known in the trade as a “spit in your face lie”. This is just code for go away and die, Jew.
But maybe you have convinced yourself you are fair dinkum. The extremist mind, especially at its nuttiest, is a wonder to behold. I’m still shaking my head at you banning that other guy for “cherry picking the Hamas Charter”. It is impossible not to get a laugh at that. I’m hoping that other guy will see this and get a chance to have a good laugh too but I guess that’s unlikely.
I am impressed with the minutia of your obsession and I mean that sincerely.
Those questions, and that response from a true hero of history and the nation, Abba Eban, right at the cusp of the declaration of the state, is an absolute gem. No irony. Straight face. See?
Absolutely priceless. It is worth a post at my blog on its own. Thanks for the share. I’m going to put it up here as well for the benefit of anyone who might wander by and wants to get a taste of what it was like as the desperate existential conflict that gave rise to such a magnificent and inspirational national liberation beyond all odds transitioned from a civil war within what was left of the mandate into an international war with the world’s newest nation, having thrown its doors open to all Jews everywhere, whether survivors of genocide or refugees from bigotry and oppression such as in the Muslim lands and Russia, was set upon by the military of vastly larger countries on all sides, and beyond, with murder, rape and genocide in mind, exactly like jackals on a stranded fresh born calf. Exactly like ISIS on a helpless group of Christians fleeing for their lives from their homes. .
So they thought. Some calf.
Security Council
Distr.
UNRESTRICTED
S/766
22 May 1948
Original: English
LETTER DATED 18 MAY 1948 FROM THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY-GENERAL FOR SECURITY
COUNCIL AFFAIRS ADDRESSED TO THE JEWISH AGENCY FOR PALESTINE, AND REPLY
DATED 22 MAY 1948 ADDRESSED TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL
CONCERNING THE QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY THE SECURITY COUNCIL
18 May 1948
Sir,
I am directed by the President of the Security Council to communicate to you for transmission to the appropriate Jewish Authorities in Palestine the attached questions which the Security Council decided at its two hundred and ninety-fifth meeting, held on 18 May 1948, to address to the Jewish Authorities in Palestine.
I have the honour to inform you also that, in view of the urgency of the matter, the Security Council requested to receive a reply to the questions within forty-eight hours, counting from 19 May 1948 at noon, New York Standard Time.
I have the honour to be,
Sir,
Your obedient Servant,
A. Sobolev
Assistant Secretary-General
in charge of Security Council Affairs
Mr. Arthur Lourie,
Director of the New York Office,
Jewish Agency for Palestine,
16 East 66th Street,
New York , N.Y.
QUESTIONS TO THE JEWISH AUTHORITIES IN PALESTINE
(a) Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at the present time?
(b) Do you have armed forces operating in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Arabs are the majority, or outside Palestine?
(c) If so, on what basis do you attempt to justify such operations?
(d) Have you arranged for the entry into Palestine in the near future of men of military age from outside Palestine? If so, what are the numbers and where are they coming from?
(e) Are you negotiating with Arab authorities regarding either the truce or a political settlement in Palestine?
(f) Have you named representatives to deal with the Security Council Truce Commission for the purpose of effecting the truce called for by the Security Council?
(g) Will you agree to an immediate and unconditional truce for the City of Jerusalem and the Holy Places?
(h) Have Arab forces penetrated into the territory over which you claim to have authority?
REPLY
STATE OF ISRAEL
Office of the Acting
Representative at the
United Nations
Sir,
I am directed by the Provisional Government of Israel to communicate to you the following replies to the questions addressed by the Security Council at its 295th meeting held on May 18, 1948 to the “Jewish authorities in Palestine”. These questions were transmitted by me to the Foreign Secretary of the Provisional Government of Israel in Tel Aviv.
I have to point out that the designation “Jewish authorities”, which applied in the past to the Jewish Agency for Palestine and to the National Council of the Jews of Palestine (Vaad Leumi), now applies to the Provisional State Council and the Provisional Government of the State of Israel, jointly established by those bodies, and in which, since May 15, 1948, all legislative, executive and judiciary powers in the State of Israel are now vested.
I have the honour, Sir, to be
Your obedient servant,
(signed) Aubrey S. Eban
REPLIES OF PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL TO SECURITY COUNCIL QUESTIONNAIRE
Question (a): Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed.
Question (b): Do you have armed forces operating in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Arabs are the majority, or outside Palestine?
Answer to Question (b): We consider the territory of Israel as a single unit with a Jewish majority. As indicated above, the Government of the State of Israel operates in parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel; parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem, formerly for the most part, contained Arab majorities. These areas have, however, been mostly abandoned by their Arab population. No area outside of Palestine is under Jewish occupation but sallies beyond the frontiers of the State of Israel have occasionally been carried out by Jewish forces for imperative military reasons, and as a part of an essentially defensive plan.
Question (c) If so, on what basis do you attempt to justify such operations?
Answer to Question (c): The above operations in areas outside the State of Israel are justified on the following grounds:
1. In order to repel aggression, and as part of our essentially defensive plan, to prevent these areas being used as bases for attacks against the State of Israel.
2. In order to protect Jewish population, traffic and economic life, including the protection of those Jewish settlements outside the area of the State where, owing to the absence of any duly constituted authority and the failure to implement the guarantees and safeguards provided for under the General Assembly Plan, life and property are in imminent danger. Similar considerations apply in the absence of any international statute for the City of Jerusalem to the Jewish area of the City.
Question (d): Have you arranged for the entry into Palestine in the near future of men of military age from outside Palestine? If so, what are the numbers and where are they coming from?
Answer to Question (d): Arrangements have been and are being made for the entry into Palestine of Jewish immigrants of all ages and both sexes from various countries in accordance with the avowed object and primary purpose of the State of Israel to open its gates for large-scale immigration. The State of Israel regards the matter of immigration as a matter within its domestic jurisdiction.
Question (e): Are you negotiating with Arab authorities regarding either the truce or a political settlement in Palestine?
Answer to Question (e): No such negotiations are at present proceeding. The Secretary-General of the Arab League was informed immediately after the November Resolution that the Jews were ready to negotiate for peaceful collaboration on the basis of implementation of the Resolution of the General Assembly of November 29. To this no reply was received. Repeated approaches were also made to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan offering on behalf of the Jewish State peace and good neighborliness, but these offers were rejected by King Abdullah, who insisted that the whole of Palestine come under his rule and that the Jews accept Arab nationality and rest content with regional autonomy.
We have on repeated occasions indicated our affirmative attitude to cease-fire proposals coming from British authorities in Palestine and various organs of the United Nations. The cease-fire in the Old City initiated by the Trusteeship Council and observed by the Jews, was broken by the Arabs.
Question (f): Have you named representatives to deal with the Security Council Truce Commission for the purpose of effecting the truce called for by the Security Council?
Answer to Question (f): When the Security Council adopted the Truce Resolution the Provisional Government of the State of Israel did not yet exist, but the Jewish Agency kept in close touch with the Truce Commission in Jerusalem from its inception. This liaison has now been taken over by the Provisional Government.
Question (g):Will you agree to an immediate an unconditional truce for the City of Jerusalem and the Holy Places?
Answer to Question (g): Yes.
Question (h): Have Arab forces penetrated into the territory over which you claim to have authority?
Answer to Question (h): Arab forces have penetrated into the territory of the State of Israel in certain corners of the Northern Negev and in the Jordan Valley south of Lake Tiberias. In addition, planes of the Royal Egyptian Air Force have repeatedly raided Tel Aviv and southern Jewish settlements, while Iraqi air-force planes have been raiding settlements in the Northern Jordan Valley and artillery of the Syrian and Lebanese armies have been shelling settlements in Upper Galilee from across the frontier.
—–
Comment by geoffff — October 8, 2014 @ 1:15 pm
It didn’t translate on the paste but at the start of Abba’s gutsy response to the UNSC questions, talknic or someone had highlighted the phrase ” outside the territory of the State of Israel”.
So at the link you see
Question (a): Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, [ yellow underlining begins] outside the territory of the State of Israel, [ yellow underlining ends] are under the control …
Just so we are clear about this.
It is, I think, important as a hallmark of the extremist mind.
Comment by geoffff — October 8, 2014 @ 1:24 pm
@ “I’m not here to engage with you” geoffff
Oh… OK. You’ll have no need to continue posting ( see *** )
“I’m here to amuse myself and to pursue an interest in what makes the extremist mind work.”
I’d ask you to attempt to quote this alleged extremism, but as you’re not here to engage, you have no need to continue posting :-)
“You see, your base proposition, that Israel (and Israelis) are illegal beyond the pre-state partition lines ….”
It’s not in fact my base proposition at all. States exist after they’re declared. ‘pre-state’ partition lines are only of historical interest once a state has declared. Once a state has declared, the territories outside that state are not the property of that state even if those territories do not belong to another state.
When the Israeli Government proclaimed its sovereign extent to the world in order to be recognized, it was already a ‘declared’ state. It was recognized by the boundaries it proclaimed it had. No more, no less. It’s the very basis of the ensuing UNSC resolutions against Israel for its forces being in non-Israeli territories.
It’s also part of the legal basis for the hundreds of UNSC resolutions against Israel for operating in territories the Israeli Government OFFICIALLY claimed were “outside the State of Israel” … “in Palestine”
“Those questions, and that response …etc etc … Absolutely priceless. It is worth a post at my blog on its own.”
Go ahead Mr “absolutely priceless”. It confirms the fact that contrary to Israel’s bullsh*t propaganda, the State of Israel had proclaimed borders and acknowledged Palestine as a separate entity. I can’t stop you from making an idiot of yourself on your own blog
————
“It didn’t translate on the paste but at the start of Abba’s gutsy response to the UNSC questions, talknic or someone had highlighted the phrase ” outside the territory of the State of Israel””
Yes geoffff, the actual words of the ISRAELI GOVT are highlighted.
“Just so we are clear about this”
Yes geoffff, they’re the words of the ISRAELI GOVT!
“It is, I think, important as a hallmark of the extremist mind”
Yes geoffff. Israeli propagandists who like to claim there was no Palestine and that Israel had no borders are extremist liars, as shown by the highlighted words of the Israeli Govt!
———
*** Bye geoffff
Comment by talknic — October 8, 2014 @ 2:29 pm
I can explain that easily.
Elvis Presley, believed by the gullible and brainwashed to be long dead, dropped by from the movie set in the desert outside of town where Mossad and the CIA filmed the fake moon landings,and came into town to ask for his sofas back and when someone said “Elvis is in the building” a passing crowd of fans thought he said “Elvis want his sofas out of the building” and damn near wrecked the place to comply.
Elvis was lucky to get out with his life.
Demolition, my foot
I know a groupie wrecked building when I see one. Bloody IDF would lie about anything.
Incidentally I’m thinking I’m getting closer to what drives your form of obsessive extremism. The hint is in your Gravator.
Everything points to an obsession with Jews that is so profound you are able to look at the history of post-war Palestine and Israel with a focus on the Jews that is so searing that you do not see anyone else in the region, or even it seems the world. . There are just Jews and victims. No one else at all. There is no other history. There is no other world. Just Jews and victims. There is no one else and there is no overlap. It is as if the savage and determined drive to stop any Jewish homeland in any part of the post mandate land and to exterminate those who attempted to establish it never happened. No attacks on Jews . No wars waged against them . No murders, massacres, terrorism . Never happened.
To the point where you have deluded yourself that the IDF would actually deliberately fake a photo? To what end?
Incidentally I am not giving any credibility to the photos even for what they are claimed to be . I have no idea what their source is and I don’t care. As far as I know, and care, you are the source, and that’s all I need to know.
The Jews won those wars and paid a terrible price for the land that was already theirs by law. Arabs lucky to own those lands had sold it in vast tracts up to decades earlier and made fortunes. Others plundered their own Jews in vast numbers before expelling them. Where Jews were allowed to hold property, and all their communal buildings anyway, that was taken as well. How many times do the Jews have to pay before you accept that this land was not given to them?.
This was their land.
This is their land.
Arabs lucky enough to live in that land, as citizens or Jerusalem residents, whatever their grievances, are without question the most free and prosperous Arab people in all the Middle East. Their access to education, health and social services is superior and the life advantage of Arab women in Israel over those in all Arab countries is so enormous that you could not even begin to find a basis of comparison. This is one of the many reasons Israel is so intractably hated by those with the power in many Arab lands.
Their opportunities are enormous and their access to both East and West is unequalled in the region.
This land was not given to the Jews by a UNSC resolution in 1947. It was already their land and they had paid in full a hundred times over before and more times than they deserve since by any standard of depraved lopsided inhumanity.
Comment by geoffff — October 8, 2014 @ 3:12 pm
Just to round things off, I’ve allowed geoffff’s October 8, 2014 @ 3:12 pm post thru. He seems desperate to engage, despite saying he wasn’t here to engage, thereby showing himself to be typical of Israeli apologist liars.
It also shows just how insane Israeli apologist trolls can be when faced with rational debate and facts they can’t dispute
“I can explain that easily. Elvis Presley, ….. etc etc etc.”
Poor geoffff babbling about Elvis and fake moon landings, explains nothing!
“I know a groupie wrecked building when I see one. Bloody IDF would lie about anything”
??? If geoffff says so… sheeeeesh brain meltdown
“Incidentally I’m thinking I’m getting closer to what drives your form of obsessive extremism. The hint is in your Gravator”
Uh huh. But geoffff doesn’t say how
“Everything points to an obsession with Jews ..”
Israel’s apologists have a desperate need to conflate Jews with Israel, the Zionist Movement‘s state
.
“There are just Jews and victims. No one else at all. There is no other history. There is no other world. Just Jews and victims. There is no one else and there is no overlap. It is as if the savage and determined drive to stop any Jewish homeland in any part of the post mandate land and to exterminate those who attempted to establish it never happened. No attacks on Jews . No wars waged against them . No murders, massacres, terrorism . Never happened”
?? Whatever geoffff needs to say. What I’ve actually written is here for all to see and it isn’t anything like what geoffff would like me to have said.
“To the point where you have deluded yourself that the IDF would actually deliberately fake a photo? To what end?”
I’ve not accused the IDF of faking a photo… Poor geoffff needs to keep making things up
“Incidentally I am not giving any credibility to the photos even for what they are claimed to be . I have no idea what their source is and I don’t care. As far as I know, and care, you are the source, and that’s all I need to know.”
Poor blind raving geoffff, didn’t notice the the provenance provided on the Israeli photos. I wonder how he functions as a “government official and international taxation and trade partner and practice leader with a global professional consulting firm”
“The Jews won those wars and paid a terrible price for the land that was already theirs by law”
My guess is geoffff means the law of that mythical G-d who didn’t even bother to show up during the Holocaust. Or maybe he means the 1917 the Balfour declaration which wasn’t a law, didn’t mention a Jewish ‘state’, was drafted by members of the Zionist Federation and wasn’t even discussed in the British parliament. Or perhaps he means 1922 the LoN Mandate. However, Article 7, (never cited by Israel’s propagandist idiots), gave Jewish folk the right to live as PALESTINIAN citizens. Alas for geofff, the Balfour declaration and LoN Mandate became of historical interest only when in 1948 Israel proclaimed in its plea for recognition the boundaries of UNGA res 181 as sovereign to Israel and Israel was subsequently recognized as such. Finally the acquisition of territory by war was illegal by 1933, no state or the UN has ever recognized any further territories as Israeli. No agreement has ever been reached over ANY of the territories Israel has illegally acquired by war.
“Arabs lucky to own those lands had sold it in vast tracts up to decades earlier and made fortunes…..etc etc …”
Oh dear… geofff is supposedly a “government official and international taxation and trade partner and practice leader with a global professional consulting firm” yet he doesn’t know the difference between the ‘real estate’ of civilians and institutions and the ‘territory’ of states? AMAZING!!!
Japanese companies and institutions own ‘real estate’ in Australia. They don’t own ANY Australian ‘territory’. They have no rights to any Australian ‘territory’. They are not allowed to annex any Australia ‘territory’. Their citizens cannot come to Australia and settle without a valid AUSTRALIAN visa or becoming AUSTRALIAN citizens!
The amount of ‘real estate’ bought by Jewish folk and Jewish institutions was insignificant compared to the amount of ‘territory’ given completely gratis for the state of Israel. Israel paid exactly NOTHING for its legitimate territory, not one shekel.
This was their land.
This is their land.
Despite being a “government official and international taxation and trade partner and practice leader with a global professional consulting firm” geoffff fails to understand that only the territory proclaimed and recognized as Israeli is Israeli territory. Territory held under military occupation does not belong to the Occupying Power, who shall be regarded only as Laws of War Art. 55. “administrator and usufructuary of public buildings, real estate, forests, and agricultural estates belonging to the hostile State, and situated in the occupied country. It must safeguard the capital of these properties, and administer them in accordance with the rules of usufruct.”
“Arabs lucky enough to live in that land, as citizens or Jerusalem residents, whatever their grievances, are without question the most free … etc etc etc etc … “
A) Non-Jews (or Arabs) living in Israel are all Israeli citizens, of course they should have equal rights with other Israelis B) geoffff’s claims are of course completely irrelevant to the legal extent of Israeli sovereignty and Israel’s illegal activities as the “Occupying Power” according to International Law, the UN Charter and relevant conventions in territories described by the Israeli Government in its statement to the UNSC as “outside the State of Israel” .. “in Palestine”
“This land was not given to the Jews by a UNSC resolution in 1947”
The official dialogue of the Jewish agency at the time shows and the proclamation of the Israeli Government’s plea for recognition show geoffff is spouting inane bullsh*t
“It was already their land and they had paid in full a hundred times over before and more times than they deserve since by any standard of depraved lopsided inhumanity.”
A) Jewish folk only owned a tiny portion of the ‘real estate’ in the ‘territory’ given gratis to the State of Israel, B) in geoffff’s eyes, being given more than half of Palestine, gratis, for a the Jewish state, was inhumane…
One might be forgiven for reaching the conclusion that people like geoffff are stark raving mad
Comment by talknic — October 8, 2014 @ 9:43 pm
If you honestly believe that photo is of demolition work in progress then we can only conclude that you have never been near a building site, let alone a demolition, and you were away from school on every day they had anything to do with logic.
Comment by geoffff — October 6, 2014 @ 4:04 am
“we can only conclude”
Uh huh. That’d be you. Singular.
Care to explain why all that damage has occurred, yet there is no sign of ANY of the usual scorch marks one might expect to see from a Grad explosion? Why are the soft padded sofa chairs not showing any scorching or holes in their soft fabric? Did the Sofa chairs move themselves overnight?
Were there to have been an explosion causing that much damage, the lighter rubble, clearly on top in the foreground, would have been blown AWAY from the centre of the alleged blast. Why has it fallen towards the centre of the alleged blast? Why are the brown door on the right and the large wooden panel on the left are not shattered as would be expected from a rocket explosion causing that much damage? It looks exactly like some demolition work has been done.
On a bit of a poke around I find the extensive damage was in fact caused by two gas cylinders, allegedly set off by a Grad rocket. Not only is there no charring from the High Explosives of a Grad war head, but there are no pics of any rocket remnants. It could have been a gas explosion, no rocket at all, easy to blame Hamas and it wouldn’t be the first time the IDF have lied
Comment by talknic — October 6, 2014 @ 11:44 pm
This one really is fun.
The IDF uses fake photos of a demolition that it portrays as rocket or missile fallout damage so as to provide cover for the attack on Hamas et al.
I think you have it!
Check these out
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=KtftoNPJYQ50sM&tbnid=_3UVNrzS9p2hDM:&ved=0CAQQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ideal-homes.org.uk%2F__data%2Fassets%2Fimage%2F0013%2F303421%2Fguernsey-grove-00174-640.jpg&ei=SPQ0VJaSNsun8AWKsYLwDA&bvm=bv.76943099,d.dGc&psig=AFQjCNG6idBjaGpEsRxXi538aQ61FAXuuA&ust=1412842802167180
and
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=esqOPbk0cwY_xM&tbnid=zEgkOBSUILDdVM:&ved=0CAQQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fww2today.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F01%2Fwallers_aftermath.jpg&ei=CPU0VIyzFs3W8gX93oLQAQ&bvm=bv.76943099,d.dGc&psig=AFQjCNG6idBjaGpEsRxXi538aQ61FAXuuA&ust=1412842802167180
on and on they go
here’s the clinchers
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=xnQzYppZNIJazM&tbnid=A6vrcqXAf_Iz6M:&ved=0CAQQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heritageexplorer.org.uk%2Ffile%2Fhe%2Fcontent%2Fupload%2Fdatabase%2F3779_450.jpg&ei=rvc0VJO-K9KB8gX_xoH4BQ&bvm=bv.76943099,d.dGc&psig=AFQjCNF3ZulQufFFhb-3pYw7JhnjrxcmGw&ust=1412843817692767
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=Raf9QKt0fJVuBM&tbnid=9Tmkqtt0MMm7LM:&ved=0CAQQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.v2rocket.com%2Fstart%2Fdeployment%2Fboundary-road-mar-16-1945.jpg&ei=7PU0VIaOBZfc8AXrpoGQDg&bvm=bv.76943099,d.dGc&psig=AFQjCNEHek_I_Ctza87Wzeta3QCyoTAMFw&ust=1412843294285311
For all these years we thought these images depicted residential damage caused by V2 rocket attacks on London. Obviously all these photos are fake.
Were there to have been an explosion causing that much damage, the lighter rubble, clearly on top in the foreground of these photos would have been blown AWAY from the centre of the alleged blast. Why has it fallen towards the centre of the alleged blast? Why are there buildings and structures adjacent to the alleged explosion that appear untouched and are not shattered as would be expected from a rocket explosion causing that much damage? Books on shelves left undamaged by a “blast” that was supposed to destroy the roof?
Come on. You can’t get that crap past talknic
It looks exactly like some demolition work has been done.
Not only is there no charring from the High Explosives of the V2 war heads, but there are no pics of any rocket remnants. It could have been a gas explosion, no rocket at all, easy to blame Hitler and it wouldn’t be the first time the Brits have lied.
Mate, I’ve think you have just rewritten history. Turned everything we knew about World War 2 on its head.
I’d congratulate you but it would hardly be the first time people like you have done that.
pal
Comment by geoffff — October 8, 2014 @ 8:46 am
“The IDF uses fake photos of a demolition that it portrays as rocket or missile fallout damage so as to provide cover for the attack on Hamas et al.”
If you say so geoffff! That’s not what I’ve said.
“For all these years we thought these images depicted residential damage caused by V2 rocket attacks on London. Obviously all these photos are fake.”
If you say so. Looking for signs of charring in black and white photos must be fun BTW. A roof falls down rather than blasting outwards and a photo taken looking towards damaged buildings from the direction of a blast as can be seen by the alignment of the debris will of course show damage and rubble blasted onto surfaces
Care to explain how the magical undamaged Israeli sofa chairs re-arranged themselves overnight?
Comment by talknic — October 8, 2014 @ 12:09 pm
How stupid are you? First, your thesis requires that all projectiles be the same size or else your comparison of impact photos makes absolutely no sense.
Gazans fire 60mm mortar shells on up to Faj’r-5 Missiles aka “M75s”). One makes only a slight scrape, the latter can flatten a house. On the hand, Israel uses huge aerial munitions that can flatten lorise buildings. So why did you even make your comparison?
As for your belief that the rocket between two pipes is buried, you obviously know nothing about artillery rockets. If a Qassam-4 or 5 impacts on hard soil only the nose remains solid, the rest is obliterated. Again you failed.
Get a new hobby.
Comment by Rachamim Dwek — September 3, 2014 @ 9:10 pm
“First, your thesis requires that all projectiles be the same size or else your comparison of impact photos makes absolutely no sense”
Whatever bullsh*t you need to spout to keep your bile dripping! The photos compare the amount of damage, not the size of the projectiles. Have many entire apartment blocks or entire streets been completely demolished in Israel by Palestinian projectiles?
“As for your belief that the rocket between two pipes is buried”
It isn’t buried? WOW! I wonder why it’s sticking out of the soil?
“If a Qassam-4 or 5 impacts on hard soil only the nose remains solid, the rest is obliterated”
A) No sign of any explosion and B) there’s no real sign of any actual impact. It sure does look like someone has buried it to fake a photo tho
Comment by talknic — September 6, 2014 @ 5:48 pm
What military have you served in? For how long? In what capacity? Because other than your “expert opinion” you bring absolutely nothing to the table. As for your “reply”?
You show photos, one of an impact in Israel and one in Gaza and then draw your conclusion simply by comparing impact damage. Therefore, your conclusion makes no sense unless you are comparing the same projectile in both examples.
If you are comparing a HAMAS “Faj’r-5” (aka “M75”) and an IDF 81mm mortar shell the HAMAS projectile will have significantly more damage. Alternatively, if you compare an IAF GBU-28 impact with that of a HAMAS 60mm mortar the IAF impact will have significantly more damage.
All you are doing is showing a photo of an IDF/IAF/INS impact with a massive amount of damage and then comparing it with a Gazan projectile impact in Israel with less damage. You then conclude that since there is massive damage from the IDF/IAF/INS impact in Gaza, but not at the Gazan projectile impact in Israel, then the photo from Israrl must be faked.
AGAIN: For you to make any sense at all you need to compare identical projectiles. AGAIN: You have no clue as to what you are saying.
Why would a Qassam-5 Artillery Rocket have the same impact radius as a GBU-28? Any thoughts?
That Israel has more powerful weapons, better training and spends money on shelters and Interceptive Systems to protect its people and property does not mean that it fakes rocket, mortarshell or missile impacts. It has less damage because it has better weapons, training and protects its people. Perhaps if HAMAS built bombshelters instead of abduction tunnels it too would have less casualties. The fact that it does not has nothing to do with Israeli news releases showing damage at impact sites.
Try making a rational, factual argument.
Comment by Rachamim Dwek — September 7, 2014 @ 7:38 am
Israel always complains about rockets from Hamas, not missiles. What is the evidence that Hamas has M75s, and that they have been used to destroy buildings in Israel?
Comment by walktallhangloose — September 7, 2014 @ 8:43 am
Walktallhangloose: “Israel mentions rockets but not missiles.”: Not true but really not relevant either way. First, a layperson has no idea what the difference is between a rocket and a missile so in many cases the Spokesperson opts for a single word for the sake of brevity. It is like the IDF Spokesperson using “Anti Tank” instead of “RPG” which happens quite often. Semantics are what they are.
“What is the evidence that Gazans have M75s?”: Apart from HAMAS having a huge memorial dedicated to the missile in a downtown traffic roundabout, umpteenth Arabic Language-media exposes in which HAMAS proudly displays the missile, its underground hydraulic launchers and so on?
The “M75” is a made-up designation invented by HAMAS. It is actually an Iranian “Faj’r-5.” When the Rafah Tunnels still existed members from both HAMAS and PIJ crossed into Egypt in small batches and teavelled to Tehran via Cairo. In Tehran the Revolutionary Guards’ al Quds Division then trained Gazans in two tracks, A) Fabrication-Manufacture, B) Engineering.
Later motors and crucial circuit boards- and separately bulk Military-Grade Explosives were smuggled into Gaza via Rafah, from Sudan overland. In Gaza locals fabricated all other parts, and then manufactured the missile. Aside from intel, Iran itself let domestic media do an expose on its heretofore covert programme to propagandise it.
“What evidence is there of M-75s destroying buildings in Israel?”: Israeli media has covered the impacts as well as the interceptions. Western Media though tends to ignore it. An example is a home in Yahud that was flattened, a pre-school in Ashkelon that was pancaked- though classes had been suspended because of danger. On and on. In fact? A photo is being used, claiming its a Gazan baby injured by Israeli missiles when in fact it was an Israeli baby from Kiryat Malachi who lived in a housing estate (“projects” for Americans) during Pillar of Defense in Autumn of 2012. The baby’s family lived in a lo-rise that lost two floors from an “M75.”
Finally, need to add, nearly half of all “M75s” launched out of Gaza during Protective Edge never made it out of Gaza. They detonated on the launcher or else launched but fell short. Ironically Gazans kill more Gazans than Israelis.
Comment by Rachamim Dwek — September 7, 2014 @ 1:41 pm
Any more of your false assertions/accusations and unsubstantiated bullsh*t and you will be banned! Clear?
” Ironically Gazans kill more Gazans than Israelis”
Statistics please….. thx
Comment by talknic — September 8, 2014 @ 4:11 am
What a phony. Oooooh I better stop telling the truth or some kid in his mom’s cellar will “ban” me from his blog. Gosh you are precious but then I never expected a factual response sweetie. Stick to rinking doorbells and running tissue through trees. Leave geopolitics to grown folks. Your “expert opinion” says what?
Comment by Rachamim Dwek — September 8, 2014 @ 6:06 am
You demean yourself completely by this juvenile remark. You should apologize. Talknic is a serious person of mature years who has a vast amount of knowledge about the history of Israel and the nature of Zionist propaganda.
Comment by walktallhangloose — September 8, 2014 @ 9:33 am
“I better stop telling the truth…”
Is that what was said? No of course it wasn’t. You’re dishonest. It was a reasonable request for verification/statistics for what you claim. You’ve failed! Bye!
Comment by talknic — September 9, 2014 @ 10:07 am
Unlike talknic, looking at photo2, I would not conclude that the damage could not have been caused by a missile, never having seen missile damage myself. I also think it unlikely that the editors of Haaretz would be fooled by a fake photograph, particularly as it is properly accredited by date, place and photographer’s name.
It would help us resolve this if you could provide some links to authoritative sources with photos of similar missile damage – perhaps the house in Yahud and pre-school in Ashkelon that you mention.
Comment by walktallhangloose — September 8, 2014 @ 9:16 am
Hi WTHL,
Rachamim Dwek was given a chance to substantiate their claims. Rachamim Dwek failed and instead resorted to lying and puerile drivel. Rachamim Dwek has been banned.
Comment by talknic — September 10, 2014 @ 5:06 am
2nd photo …. As much damage would have required a rocket or missile to have exploded. There are no burn marks or charring associated with a rocket explosion.
There are no signs of the debris being blasted AWAY FROM a blast point, in fact the rubble in the foreground is on top of the debris, the opposite of where it would be if there had been a rocket blast.
The lounge chairs are not torn, ripped or showing any of the hallmarks of being in a rocket explosion.
The timber roof struts are not shattered, splintered or charred. It looks very much like a house demolition where materials have been pushed in and on top, not pushed away and blasted out!
Comment by talknic — September 10, 2014 @ 8:43 pm
Say .. why didn’t you answer the question Dwek? It was fairly put. Have many entire apartment blocks or entire streets been completely demolished in Israel by Palestinian projectiles?
I’m betting you can’t answer it without getting egg on your face!
“What military have you served in …. etc etc”
One doesn’t have to have served in the military or be an expert to see the obvious lack of evidence in the photos of alleged damage in Israel. There’s no sign of any explosion in the 1st two pictures. No blackening, no fire damage, no craters, no explosion pushing material away from ANY explosion point! I presume you have two eyes, use both of ’em for a change…
The photos clearly show Israel has caused far more damage with its high tech human slaughtering equipment than the Palestinians have or could ever hope to inflict on Israel. It seems the amount of damage inflicted by the Palestinians is so slight, Israel needs to fake evidence ..
“You show photos, one of an impact in Israel and one in Gaza and then draw your conclusion simply by comparing impact damage.”
Yes. It’s called comparing the impact damage…
” Therefore, your conclusion makes no sense unless you are comparing the same projectile in both examples”
A) That’s NOT the basis of my criticism of the Israeli photos B) The Palestinians have nothing comparable either in lethality, destructive effectiveness, tonnage or method of delivery
“All you are doing is showing a photo of an IDF/IAF/INS impact with a massive amount of damage and then comparing it with a Gazan projectile impact in Israel with less damage.”
Precisely…. see the difference? Now, for the second time Dwek, have many entire apartment blocks or entire streets been completely demolished in Israel by Palestinian projectiles?
“You then conclude that since there is massive damage from the IDF/IAF/INS impact in Gaza, but not at the Gazan projectile impact in Israel, then the photo from Israrl must be faked.”
Get your guide dog to read the text under the 1st two photos for you Dwek. That text is the basis of my criticism, not on a false accusation from the likes of yourself. Say ….resorting to making false accusations is against the basic tenets of Jewish faith, that you resort to breaking the basic tenets of Judaism on behalf of the Jewish state is really bizarre. It shows the kind of people Zionism seems to attract. Keep up th’ good work!
“Why would a Qassam-5 Artillery Rocket have the same impact radius as a GBU-28? “
Indeed. You insist on making my case…. clever!
“That Israel has more powerful weapons, better training and spends money on shelters and Interceptive Systems to protect its people and property does not mean that it fakes rocket, mortarshell or missile impacts”
Quite true. But of course they’re NOT the reasons I’ve given for asserting the evidence is faked. You keep making false assertions. Why?
“It has less damage because it has better weapons, training and protects its people”
I see. Nothing at all to do with the ineffectiveness of Palestinian weaponry… Say, how does Israel inflict thousands of times MORE damage on the Palestinians? Is it because Palestinian weaponry is ineffective?
“Perhaps if HAMAS built bombshelters instead of abduction tunnels it too would have less casualties”
A) If the Palestinians didn’t resist, why would they need to build bomb shelters? B) Military personnel are captured (valid targets BTW) C) Any Israeli civilians abducted through these so called “abduction tunnels”?
Wouldn’t it be better if Israel simply got out of all non-Israeli territory it has “occupied” for 66 years?
stopped illegally acquiring other folks territory by war?
stopped illegal annexation?
stoppedillegal settlements in non-Israeli territory?
The Palestinians ask for their legal rights under the Laws and UN Charter Israel obliged itself to uphold …. but hasn’t!
Israel’s demands for recognition, Palestinian disarmament and more and more non-Israeli territory for defense and settlement have absolutely no legal basis what so ever!
Comment by talknic — September 8, 2014 @ 4:00 am
I wonder why the Arab community allows the rape of Palestine? What keeps the other Muslim Mid-Eastern nations from banding together to protect Palestine from extinction?
Comment by P.Shore — July 18, 2014 @ 2:34 am
How can they protect Palestine from extinction? Their attempts to evict Israeli forces out of non-Israeli territory have never been successful.
Israel had and still has A) the most modern and well equipped military in the region B) nukes C) Insane warmongering leaders D) the backing of the US thru the US UNSC veto vote (despite being in breach of the Law and the UN Charter and hundreds of UNSC resolutions giving Israel the opportunity to abide by the binding Laws and UN Charter those resolutions reaffirm and emphasize)
Being the only nuclear power in the region and with the US UNSC veto vote protecting it from any UN sanctioned repercussions, Israel can and does ignore anything it doesn’t like and does what ever it wants, regardless of the fact that what it does is completely against the basic tenets of Judaism. While Israel has the US UNSC veto vote it can’t even be booted out of the UN for being in breach of the UN Charter!
The other Muslim Mid-Eastern nations only legal option is BSD or the limited machinations of the ICJ whose rulings would need to be enforced but alas would be vetoed by the US.
Comment by talknic — July 18, 2014 @ 10:58 pm
Which insane warmongering leaders r u referring to??
Comment by Alan in Australia — July 29, 2014 @ 11:05 am
@ Alan. Guess….
There are no UNSC resolutions against any Arab state for rightfully attempting to evict Jewish forces who’re illegally in non-Israeli territory. Israel’s military has been in territories “outside the State of Israel” … “in Palestine” for 66 years
Comment by talknic — July 30, 2014 @ 2:44 am
There is no polity called palestine.
There are no UNSC resolutions that call 4 withdrawal from all captured territories.
Territory captured in a defensive war is subject to negotiation in return 4 peace, and not a return to status quo ante.
But then, u know all this.
Comment by Alan in Australia — July 30, 2014 @ 3:39 am
@ Alan in Australia … “There is no polity called palestine”
Quite true. But then only stupid propagandizing bigots purposefully lowercase proper nouns. You immediately reveal yourself for what you are buddy!
It’s spelled with an Upper Case ‘P’ as in Palestine, a state recognized by the vast majority of countries in the UN!
“There are no UNSC resolutions that call 4 withdrawal from all captured territories.”
UNSC res 476 (subsequent to 242 and one of EIGHT reminders to Israel of UNSC res 252) tell us you’re spouting ignorant bullsh*t!
“Territory captured in a defensive war is subject to negotiation in return 4 peace, and not a return to status quo ante.”
The Montevideo Convention of the Rights and Duties of States 1933 sez you’re talking more ignorant bullsh*t!
Furthermore it is withdrawal for peace, per the Israel/Egypt Peace Treaty where Israel AGREED to withdraw from ALL territory sovereign to Egypt BEFORE peaceful relations were assumed.
You get no points for bullsh*t here pal! And I see no reason to be polite to bullsh*t artists such as yourself. So buster, come back with some verifiable facts, otherwise STFU or I’ll ban you …. thx!
Comment by talknic — July 30, 2014 @ 9:33 am
U clearly have a lot of time on your hands. Ill try and help. I am not complicated. I detest lethal violence masquerading under the robes of a violent religion which glorifies killing and matryrdom.
There wil never be a palestine until those arabs who were given land east of the Jordan recognise the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state.
In intnl law there is absolutely no requirement tocreturn land taken in a defensive action unless agreed to by the aggrieved party.
Israel has 8always been willing 2 swap land for peace.
You do not have any precedent in intnl law to support the position u take. There is a reason why there is still no palestine these past 66 years.
Just wanting it wont make it so. palestine as u wd have it does not fulfil even one condition ofcthe 5 that the UN recognises for nationhood. Your position will always be imposdible to support. In international law.
Wouldnt hurt to read a bit more of the detailed literature.
Alternatively, if u prefer more easily digestible blocs of info, follow my blog.
Comment by Alan in Australia — July 30, 2014 @ 9:55 am
@ Alan
“There wil never be a palestine until those arabs who were given land east of the Jordan recognise the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state.”
A) Your deliberate lower casing of ‘p‘alestine and ‘a‘rabs gives you away as a vile little bigot! How clever! You must be so proud!
B) It was Palestine BEFORE partition. Jews could immigrate and get PALESTINIAN citizenship!. On partition Israel was alotted 56% of Palestine. That’s 56% of Palestine taken away from the Arabs. They kept only a part of what was already theirs. They were not “given” anything! Your stinking, scummy, lying, weasel words demonstrates to readers the type of creepy propagandizing putrid slime the Zionist colonization of Palestine breeds.
C) Palestine is already a state recognized by the vast majority of the International Comity of Nations.
D) There is no legal basis for the demand for recognition. Recognition is not mandatory. ” ..in the view of the United States, International Law does not require a state to recognize another state; it is a matter for the judgment of each state whether an entity merits recognition as a state. In reaching this judgment, the United States has traditionally looked for the establishment of certain facts. The United States has also taken into account whether the entity in question has attracted the recognition of the International community of states.” Israel didn’t recognize anyone in order to become a state. States exist without recognition.
“In intnl law there is absolutely no requirement tocreturn land taken in a defensive action unless agreed to by the aggrieved party”
Cite the law verbatim …. I’ll wait
“Israel has 8always been willing 2 swap land for peace”
A} Israel has never offered to swap any Israeli land. Israel has offered to swap occupied Palestinian territory for occupied Palestinian territory so Israel can keep occupied Palestinian territory.
B) It’s withdrawal for peace. Read the Egypt Israel peace treaty you ignoramus.
“You do not have any precedent in intnl law to support the position u take”
Strange … I cited the law verbatim. You have brought NOTHING but your fat flapping bigot mouth rocky
“ust wanting it wont make it so. palestine as u wd have it does not fulfil even one condition ofcthe 5 that the UN recognises for nationhood
Cite them … I dare you!. It will show that Israel HAD TO HAVE A DEFINED territory, aka BORDERS on May 15th 1948
“Alternatively, if u prefer more easily digestible blocs of info, follow my blog”
You’re delusional pal! Your blog is the same indigestable C R A P you posted here.
Comment by talknic — August 1, 2014 @ 1:07 am
I am quite comfortable with your threatened ban. It makes no odds to me. I wd hazard a guess that u subscribe to a doctrine of limited liability…..The real world doesnt work like that. I also suspect that u like “facts” which support pre-determined outcomes. There is a reason there is no palestine these past 66 years.
You will always find it difficult to legally support your position. In intnl law. Even if u want a different outcome……
Comment by Alan in Australia — July 30, 2014 @ 10:10 am
BYE Alan!
Alan has been banned for being a dishonest contributor. Links to International Law were supplied. Instead of reading them, he came back with idiotic unsupported denial. Furthermore he deliberately lower cases ‘a’rabs and ‘p’alestinians, the sure mark of a vile little bigot! Not unusual for supporters of Israel’s illegal policies in the non-Israeli territory it has occupied for the last 66 years!
Comment by talknic — August 1, 2014 @ 1:26 am
Hamas’s missiles are described as rockets, not shells, so they do not explode on impact. The only damage they cause is impact damage, with the amount of damage depending on the weight and velocity of impact. Picture 1 could possibly be a burned-out rocket that partly buried itself in the earth when it fell to the ground. What is certain is that it is far too flimsy to have caused the damage in Picture 2
Comment by walktallhangloose — July 14, 2014 @ 3:09 pm
If it is indeed a rocket, the diameter indicates quite a length of rocket must be buried. However, there is no disturbance of the surrounding soil indicative of the impact forces necessary to bury almost its entire length.
Comment by talknic — July 14, 2014 @ 6:24 pm
It seems possible to me that that is indeed a rocket. I would guess that its impacted through a greenhouse, or into a garden, where the soil is so soft that its not exploded.
One thing for reasonably certain – it has not been intercepted and detonated by Iron Sieve, since this would leave a twisted and unaerodynamic tube that won’t fall true and stick into the ground
If you’ve wondered what a real interception looks like, Postol reckons he has two pictures of them here – http://thebulletin.org/evidence-shows-iron-dome-not-working7318
One of those is a rocket that’s been punctured but not detonated – and he has just one picture of a true interception.
Strangely, Postol’s picture doesn’t show the “double-puff” or “double-flash” that we thought that Israel had promised us! See – http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/03/08/iron-dome-system-failed-miserably/
Comment by Wiliam Smart — October 16, 2014 @ 3:43 pm
Shlomo, you’re missing a few adjectives. Obviously, I think the pictures as well as your comment are ridiculous. To comment specifically, we don’t fake. The rocket remaining may have landed there, or even put there. Who said this is where it landed? To the second picture, all rockets (not bombs) create very similar results. No fire, just holes in ceilings and demolotion . Shlomo, I don’t think you will ever believe Israel as the gap is too big, but I really have to ask, have you had any concerns when Syrian leader killed over 100K of his own citizens?
Comment by Anonymous — July 13, 2014 @ 4:46 pm
Anonymous said:
“Shlomo, I don’t think you will ever believe Israel as the gap is too big, but I really have to ask, have you had any concerns when Syrian leader killed over 100K of his own citizens?”
This is a standard hasbara point, the “why aren’t you concerned about more deaths in Syria, but you are only concerned with what Israel does?”. It is supposed to be exposing the anti-Semitism of the person who allegedly is concerned only with Israel’s misdeeds, oblivious to other atrocities worldwide.
Now, it is obvious that someone might be interested more in the Israeli/Palestine (i/p) conflict than other conflicts for a whole lot of reasons other than anti-Semitism, but i will just give you one that even a highly supportive of Israel journo (a journo respected by pro-Israel right-wingers), and i am referring to Amos Harel, cited as a natural explanation for the seeming preoccupation with Israel instead of Syria. I quote Harel:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.604701
“According to the United Nations, as of Saturday night there were 151 deaths in Gaza, an estimated 70 percent of whom were civilians. That’s about the daily civilian body count in Syria’s civil war, but in Gaza the world still sees the possibility of intervention leading to a cease-fire.”
Ok, my friend, got it? The world still sees Israel as more capable of responding to the demands of morality than it sees Assad the butcher or the Jihadis that fight him. Alternatively, the world sees that Israel is more responsive to pressure than Assad or the Jihadis. Either way, it means that those concentrating on the i/p might be doing so because they see that their efforts will have more impact if they concentrate on the i/p conflict than concentrating on Syria. So, please, stop insinuating double standards, it’s getting boring
Comment by Dionissis Mitropoulos — July 13, 2014 @ 9:12 pm
I would also say that many American and British commentators feel a special responsibility towards the I/p conflict, because it was their governments that are mainly responsible for creating the situation: the British, because of its policy of a Jewish National Home in Palestine; and the American because of the premature recognition of the State of Israel.
Comment by walktallhangloose — July 14, 2014 @ 3:19 pm
Anonymous said:
” To comment specifically, we don’t fake.”
I guess by “we” you mean the Israelis. Well, both some Israelis and the hasbara machine are certainly distorting the truth all the time. Without getting into past instances of such misrepresentations, i will only show you the distortion that is most prevalent these days, thanks to the hasbara efforts: i am speaking about the distortion that casts either Hamas as the sole party not wanting a ceasefire during operation Protective Edge, or the more supposedly even-handed variant that casts both Israel and Hamas as not desiring a cease-fire. Jeffrey Goldberg the liberal-hasbarat has put the matter so hypocritically that i don’t need to go any further to the right-wing. I quote him:
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-11/is-hamas-trying-to-get-gazans-killed
“Hamas is trying to get Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible… There is no doubt that Hamas could protect Palestinian lives by ceasing its current campaign to end Israeli lives. The decision is Hamas’s.”
But, of course, the decision is not Hamas’, as Jeffrey tells us. The decision belongs to Israel, Israel (according to IMRA, a hard right-wing news outlet, i’ll come back to it later) has made it clear that it does not want a cease-fire despite Hamas’ having made it clear that it wants a cease-fire as even Netanyahu’s paper, the right-wing Israel Hayom admits, through its top commentator, Dan Margali. I quote first him:
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=9109
“In practice, Saturday night’s threat teaches us that Hamas wants a truce. The threat, followed by a salvo, sounds like a grand finale. But the potential mediators — chiefly Egypt — are in no hurry. They are pleased that Israel is pummeling Hamas. “
Ok? Hamas wants truce, so says even Netanyahu’s paper.
And what does Israel say concerning a potential ceasefire? I quote from the New York Times (NYT), because the NYT too distorts the picture as both Hamas and Israel being unwilling to enter a cease-fire. I quote from the NYT:
“There is little appetite for a return to the cease-fire of November 2012, which lasted little over a year and a half. Yuval Steinitz, the minister for strategic affairs, told Israel Radio that the immediate goal is “quiet,” but “the strategic goal is demilitarization.” He added, “We have to finally not be satisfied with a temporary filling, but do a root canal.””
Ok my friend? Israel wants to degrade Hamas’ military capabilities, Israel is not interested in a cease-fire that would bring back the status quo ante, Israel is not interested in a deal of the sort “i stop bombing Gaza, you Hamas stop firing rockets”(no less because the Israeli public sentiment is asking for blood).
Now, Netanyahu too made it almost clear that he doesn’t want a cease-fire. Here is what he said (i quote him from the hard right-wing news outlet i mentioned before, IMRA, for reasons that will become clear in a minute. Here is Netanyahu:
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=64313
“We will continue to act …. in order to achieve the goal of the operation – the restoration of quiet for a long period while inflicting a significant blow on Hama and the other terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip”
Now, the restoration of quiet for a long period (which is his first objective) can be asked of Hamas, it is a very rational demand. But he is also intent on a second goal, as Netanyahu said, “to inflict a significant blow on Hamas”. So how can there be a cease-fire when Israel wants to hurt Hamas (by degrading its military capabilities) anyway? Can Hamas agree to disarm itself willingly? You looking for freihers?
Even the right-wing outlet (so right-wing it stops just a bit short from calling “death to Arabs”, but does not hide its wish for a Greater Israel), even this outlet interpreted Netanyahu’s statement as an important departure from the goal of a mere cease-fire. In other words, it saw Netanyahu as going for more war, not for a cease-fire. I quote IMRA (same link):
“Dr. Aaron Lerner – IMRA: “goal of the operation – the restoration of quiet for a long period while inflicting a significant blow on Hama and the other terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip.” This represents a dramatic change in the goal of the operation from “the restoration of quiet for a long period.”.”
Ok my friend? Even the right-wingers admit that Israel’s goal is not just restoration of quiet, i.e. the goal is not just a cease-fire.
Actually, that was I srael’s attitude from the beginning, I quote from Jerusalem Post:
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Netanyahu-says-more-stages-to-come-in-Gaza-operation-362333
“One official said it was clear that what Israel might have accepted two weeks ago in terms of “quiet for quiet,” it would not accept now. Netanyahu, the official said, would not agree to a situation whereby yet another cease-fire would be declared, which Hamas would then take advantage of to “tend to its wounds” and restock missiles for the next round.”
In other words, Netanyahu is not satisfied with a cease-fire (“quiet for quiet”), he wants Hamas to be incapable of fighting back with rockets even in the far future. Well, you can’t expect Hamas to accept this, can you?
Anyway, my point is that the whole world now believes either that it is Hamas that is responsible for the current inability to reach a cease-fire, or that both Hamas and Israel are responsible for this stalemate, yet the truth is that it is ONLY Israel that is responsible for the fact that no cease-fire is forthcoming.
So yes, Israel and the hasbara machine do fake things, they managed to full the whole world that now Hamas does not want a cease-fire.
Comment by Dionissis Mitropoulos — July 13, 2014 @ 10:09 pm
Anonymous said:
“To comment specifically, we don’t fake.”
But Jeffrey Goldberg the liberal-hasbarat does fake, or at least so it seems. I quote him (from the link i posted above, in my previous reply to you):
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-11/is-hamas-trying-to-get-gazans-killed
“The Gaza-based Hamas has recently fired more than 500 rockets at Israeli towns and cities. This has terrorized the citizenry, though caused few casualties, in large part because Israel is protected by the Iron Dome anti-rocket system.”
Now, let’s ask Israel Hayom’s (Netanyahu’s right-wing newspaper) top commentator (Dan Margalit) about the situation in Israel during Protective Edge (same Israel Hayom link i posted in my previous reply to you):
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=9109
“Operation Protective Edge has so far been waged under conditions of luxury (knock on wood). Nowhere in the world can a country wage a war like this — without any casualties. Israel has this luxury thanks to the dedication and sacrifice of the Israeli fighters, the Israeli science and technology, and the many years in which the defense budget was never scaled back more than necessary.”
So who is telling us the truth? The liberal Goldberg or the right-wing Margalit? Goldberg says the citizenry is terrorized, but Margalit tells us Israel is conducting a war in so luxurious conditions (no real casualties) that he feels like knocking on wood for Israel’s good fortune.
I’ll ask another hardcore right-winger to adjudicate, Spengler, aka David Goldman, a right-wing hasbara figure (journo cum financier) respected in the pro-Israel right-wing, reporting from Tel Aviv:
http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2014/07/10/sunny-with-light-missile-cover-here-in-tel-aviv/?singlepage=true
“Hamas has shot off hundreds of rockets … without causing a single injury. Iron Dome has worked brilliantly. Traffic was a bit lighter than normal last night, but there wasn’t a free table at any of the hundred or so cafe terraces on Dizengoff St., Tel Aviv’s main drag.”
No free tables at the hundred cafe terraces, huh? The israelis don’t sound so terrorized as Jeffrey has been telling us.
Would you admit that Jeffrey Goldberg fakes things?
Comment by Dionissis Mitropoulos — July 13, 2014 @ 10:33 pm
“To comment specifically, we don’t fake”
Whatever bullsh*t you need to spew pal!
“The rocket remaining may have landed there, or even put there. Who said this is where it landed?”
Apart from being a bent cylindrical metal object, there’s no indication it is even a rocket, no sign of explosion, NADA! NIL! NOUGHT! NO THING!
all rockets (not bombs) create very similar results. No fire, just holes in ceilings and demolotion “
Show examples for comparison. The furniture is unscathed, the structure timbers largely un-broken, rubble strewn on top on the OPPOSITE side to where the explosion would had to have been to cause that amount of damage. No sign of any explosion.
Comment by talknic — July 14, 2014 @ 12:42 am
@ Anonymous “To comment specifically, we don’t fake.”
Uh huh…
” The rocket remaining may have landed there, or even put there. Who said this is where it landed?”
So, where it landed and how it buried itself could be as faked as it looks! Glad we got that sorted!
“but I really have to ask, have you had any concerns when Syrian leader killed over 100K of his own citizens?”
Apart from being off topic in typical zionnutter style, are all the 100k deaths attributable to Syrian Govt forces? How many of these deaths are attributable to armed rebels? Statistics please …. thx
Furthermore, whether we like them or not, even if they are a dictatorship, all governments have a duty and a right to maintain order on behalf of the majority against armed uprisings by minorities. The deaths of any innocent folk are appalling, however, until such time as a majority opposition emerges, the International community has no right to intervene in a civil war unless asked by a representative of the majority, even if that representative is the incumbent Govt
Comment by talknic — July 30, 2014 @ 3:09 am
Israel most certainly does fake. The picture on the front cover of AJ Cristol’s hasbara account of the attack on the USS Liberty was first presented and used by Thames Television in 1984 (replacing a fake that didn’t even show the right ship!).
It was published again by AJ Cristol in 2002 – and the US Navy pointed out that it was a picture of theirs taken weeks later of the ship back in Virginia!
The IDF was forced to admit that the picture was actually the copyright of the USN and AJ Cristol has changed the cover of his book.
But he will not admit that Israel cheated him and us – and nobody will tell us who air-brushed the picture and when he will be sacked!
Comment by Wiliam Smart — October 16, 2014 @ 3:48 pm
Israel is the only racist, militaristic, bullying, arrogant, mooching-off-America, hypocritical, apartheid, US-citizen-killing, Holocaust-worshipping, International-law-snubbing, land-stealing, water-robbing, lying-spying, victim-blaming, crocodile-tears-shedding, nuclear, theocratic democracy in the Mideast.
The Jewish State is also now the Fourth Reich, a blight unto the nations.
And Bibi is Adolf, Jr.
Comment by Shlomo Shunn — July 13, 2014 @ 3:31 pm
I do not endorse your comment in its entirety even though Israel is in breach of Laws and a UN charter adopted in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the #$%^@! Nazis!
Comment by talknic — July 30, 2014 @ 2:50 am