First, find out what isn't true…

January 28, 2010

Busy at the Fallacy Factory manufacturing lies and false accusations for Israel.


…It’s actually quite simple. If it isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel, then it’s a part of the non-state entity of Palestine…

ShortLink http://wp.me/pDB7k-nJ

Labouring away at the fallacy factory. Making mud they hope will stick.

What is it that drives people like the despicable TomWonacott to make false accusations?

1st accusation : Classic victimization of the Palestinians justifying murder of Israeli civilians (isn’t the Goldstone report about targeting civilians?) was also a feature of the thread:

His evidence :

talknic19 6 Jan 2010, 2:25PM

( SouthLondon01 6 Jan 2010, 2:06PM “…The Israeli kids were killed on busses, in schools, restaurants and parks, quite deliberately, and absolutely becaue of their race.”)

Dispossession (sometimes twice), illegal acquisition of territory, illegal annexation, illegal settlements, bulldozing homes are a racial trait? Amazing.

2nd accusation : And then there are the supporters of the one-state solution:

His evidence :

talknic19 6 Jan 2010, 2:32PM

(toryzionist “Perhaps if palestinian leaders had genuinely offered to allow Jewish people to remain in 1947 instead of proclaiming how they would push them into the sea ..”)

?? Declaration on the Invasion of Palestine says: “The Governments of the Arab States emphasise, on this occasion, what they have already declared before the London Conference and the United Nations, that the only solution of the Palestine problem is the establishment of a unitary Palestinian State, in accordance with democratic principles, whereby its inhabitants will enjoy complete equality before the law, [and whereby] minorities will be assured of all the guarantees recognised in democratic constitutional countries, and [whereby] the holy places will be preserved and the right of access thereto guaranteed.” Democracy!! Equal rights!! How dare they!

Neither post fits the accusation, nor is there any Antisemitism. The accusations are pathetic attempts to spread false notions.

Another example The Olive Branch
The accusation :

(ItsikDeWembley » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:40 am “Some one named Talknic was doubting the Ahmedinajad was a foot soldier in the 80’s which performed many acts of war crimes (if you can say a war was hapening…)” )

Evidence? Fortunately the original posts have never been purged even though talknic was banned. I asked for a source.

Not permitted to answer these false accusations on CiF (banned & purged), CiFWatch (not allowed to join) or The Olive Branch (not allowed to join) et al, gives me no recourse but to refute their pathetic attempts here.

Here it is again … Plying it’s trade ..

ItsikDeWembley Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:14 am “Yeterday, reading comments in The Guardian, a regular poster calls himself “Talknic” seems to counter your opinion about the Palestinian aspirations prior to 1967 as a result that no borders were declared between 1949 and 1967.

This, in my opinion, shows his / hers true intentions that either the armestice lines of 1949 should be moved back to the original patition plan (absurd idea) or that Zionism is not a valid movement and Jews do not have the right to self govern and a national movement.

Needless to say that many agree with him in that forum.
The one state solutioners all fit this line of thoughts.

Arrafat’s finest troops.

A complete fabrication. Quite bizarre.

These folk don’t seem to realise that their un-warranted and unsubstantiated character assassination attempts only show us that… they… are… LIARS! More importantly, it poses a few questions, why would anyone purposefully lie? If they lie on InterNet forums and blogs, what’s to stop them from lying elsewhere? Why would anyone believe ANYTHING they say?

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October 24, 2009

Is there a danger of Sacred Fact being drowned out on the Guardian’s Comment is Free – CiF ?


…It’s actually quite simple. If it isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel,
then it’s a territory of Palestine…

Shortlink http://wp.me/pDB7k-h3

Why am I writing this? In order to have a balanced discourse on the Israel/Palestinian issue, it is imperative that well sourced and factual counter argument be given the chance to be heard. Apart from the various slings and arrows and opinions of posters and contributors, the casual reader ought be given the chance to see what is actually said in documents, law, UNSC resolutions rather than after they’ve been put through the Ziofier and spammed endlessly.

The machinations of the UN are quite complex and ought be explained in concise and understandable terms, not just presented as an Anti-Israel organization bent on the destruction of Israel. Propaganda ought be shown for what it is. CiF and the Guardian surely owe it to their readers that a moderate voice, with a basic understanding of the Laws, UN Charter et al, be heard.

So, is there danger that CiF will be flooded with propaganda in support of Israel’s expansionist policies and illegal activities? Can moderate voices, factual information and rational counter argument be silenced? I know I am! Regularly.

By their own admissions and actions, the apologists for Israel’s illegal expansionism and illegal activities group together, issue reports on CiF commentaries, conduct mail outs advising people and encouraging them to counter anything which might be construed as Anti-Israel.

How do I know? I subscribe to some under another name in order to find out what they’re up to. Others, like CiFWatch are just too blatant and stupid for their own good, actually undermining their own hard work by the shear idiocy of their accusations and admissions. HERE”S ONE BY A CiF CONTRIBUTOR!!!Admitting to concerted efforts to have folk banned.

Ironically they complain about being banned themselves. To this end, they appear to be willing to stop at nothing. If they blatantly lie in their posts on CiF & CiFWatch, what’s to stop them from lying in their complaints to moderators especially if over worked moderators don’t look closely. Nothing!

Are these people devious? Yes. Most certainly. I’ve only kept one example of the handiwork of an apologist for Israel’s illegal activities at work on TALK International, combined alas, with moderation that begs enhancement. (I do not envy the position BTW). I had been posting as ‘Some1’ and received the following warning …

From: …….@guardian.co.uk [mailto:…….@guardian.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, 5 August 2006 1:26 AM
To: {…….}
Subject: GU Talk Warning (Some1)
This is your first warning. We are issuing 1 warning per user before banning people permanently.
Regards
User Help
Guardian Unlimited
119 Farringdon Road
London EC1R 3ER

Some1 – 08:34am Aug 4, 2006 GMT

How do you tell if a Jew is lying – his lips are moving. For some reason, anything that comes from Israel is a LIE. But anything that Hizbullah, Iran, and Hamas say or print is GOSPEL!

I immediately searched for this alleged breach of the guidelines and found the following

Israel/Lebanon Conflict Thread

100reader – 01:53pm Aug 4, 2006 GMT (#408 of 503)

Some1 – 08:34am Aug 4, 2006 GMT

How do you tell if a Jew is lying – his lips are moving. For some reason, anything that comes from Israel is a LIE. But anything that Hizbullah, Iran, and Hamas say or print is GOSPEL!

A) A poster had taken 100reader’s sarcastic, strawman remark, deleted 100reader from it and attributed it to me. Very likely 100reader, judging by a subsequent post advising me I’d need a new user name.
B) It is not in quotes. Not mine. Doesn’t closely resemble anything I’d say.
C) If one reads carefully, it reveals itself by the second two sentences in that single, unquoted, paragraph… “For some reason, anything that comes from Israel is a LIE. But anything that Hizbullah, Iran, and Hamas say or print is GOSPEL!”
1) It shows a sarcastic remark by 100Reader, prefaced with “How do you tell if a Jew is lying – his lips are moving.”
2) I’d never claimed or written anything of the sort. 100reader was of course constructing a strawman.

I attempted to explain this deception to …….@guardian. To no avail. Correspondence went un-answered. I was later banned, very likely on a similar completely false premise.

It was the type of tactic commonly used in posts by the advocates of Israel’s illegal expansionist policies. Cherry picking, replacing words, mis-quoting, false accusations, outright lying and concerted efforts to have posters banned and of course, completely ignoring factual material and posting the same fallacies over and over. Spam. Show them a document proving their fallacy is a blatant lie and they just ignore it and carry on regardless. Hard core denial by a hard core of organized Anti-Cifers

On the other hand there are no organized Pro-CiF groups that I know of. No email lists, no concerted efforts by groups of people trying to get the apologists for Israeli expansionism banned. I have never been invited to join or subscribe to any alternative to the likes of Giyus with about 40,000 users and numerous supporters, CifWatch, the Olivebranch, Harry’s place. There is a very real danger of it becoming a one sided battle.

In any one sided battle, the chances of the more powerful side drowning out the other is always a possibility and of course the desired result. In respect to the Israel/Palestinian issue, Cif could, I dare say is, fast becoming devoid of facts. Like TALK International, a place where silly, repetitious, sniping bun fights are commonplace. Boring to the reader, non-informative and for the most part non-factual, which is of course is also a tactic. If you can’t win the argument, turn the dialogue into a moshpit that no one can be bothered reading.

As talknic there were some 5,300 posts on Cif. None abusive, none contained any hatred, bigotry, Antisemitism. To the best of my knowledge, none contravened the CiF guidelines. If I went off topic it was only in response to where some other poster had, usually with an oft repeated propaganda mantra. Spam.

I’ve never used Islamist sources, hate or Antisemitic sites, only citing, as I have here, mainly irrefutable and reliable Jewish sources such as the Israeli Govt web site, the Jewish virtual library, the UN and university repositories for documents.

With correspondence going un-answered, re-registering and continuing to post is the only form of protest one has and one hopes in the brief time the information remains, someone will learn something other than the endless propaganda. It is of course purged as soon as someone complains. Not that there is ever anything to actually complain against, nor has there ever been. I’m guessing it goes like this. ‘This person is the much banned ‘talknic’, a well known Anti-semite’

However, nothing I’ve ever written on CiF comes even close to Antisemitism, hatred, bigotry or abuse. In 42 years of addressing the I/P issue at public forums, meetings, letters to the editors and now with the advent of the likes of CiF, no-one has ever been able to show anything remotely Antisemitic from what must now be hundreds of thousands of words I’ve written and spoken on the subject. The only complaint my opponents actually have is, they cannot honestly answer the questions I ask. I don’t even make it on CiFWatch’s pathetic Anti-semite list!!!

In real life discussions I’ve been ejected from meetings, threatened, had my walls sprayed with graffiti, refused service, hate mailed (constantly). One hand written letter shoved under my door advised me not to sit near the window. I’ve been covered in the spittle sprayed from bug eyed, red faced denialistas, shaking in rage, screaming their obscenities and predictable list of what they wish I was, but am not. The only way apologists for Israel’s illegal actions can ‘counter’ irrefutable knowledge from verifiable and reliable sources, is to ignore, scream over the top or try to deny access to the discussion by making a false accusations. I dare say the moderators had hundreds of complaints about Talknic, in the hope that one, like the example above, would slip through, resulting in a banning.

Meanwhile all I have ever done is speak in the hope that folk will be educated as to what actually has taken place, what laws actually have been broken and what laws actually do stand, without changing anything. I do this IN SUPPORT of the Sovereign Israel that was created as a homeland/state for all Jewish people. Israel should, like all UN Member states, at the very least be law abiding. That is all I ask.

So how does one address the imbalance of organized groups against CiF, vs no organized group at all for CiF? How does one get re-instated in order that a moderate voice with factual information be heard? Correspond? No point if your correspondence goes in the spam bin. Write about it as I have done here? Of course.

Continue to be a squeaky door where “Facts are…meant to be… Sacred”

Both! Because I can! And will.

October 19, 2009

Watching the hypocrisy where “the voice of opponents no less than that of friends has a right to be heard”


The CifWatch banner proudly extols
“the voice of opponents no less than that of friends has a right to be heard”

Unfortunately at hypocrisy central, the silencing of Talknic takes precedence. Nary a sign of the posts I’ve offered. Are they that pi$$ weak?

As for their ‘badge of honor’. What is ‘honorable’ about being booted off a tawk bored for being a bunch of ghastly, lying, toilet humorist, bigots?

CLASSIC FIB from the lil’ CiFWatchers

October 18, 2009 at 3:54 am
The Anti Discriminator

This fresh in from CIF
RecurringDisaster.

##Berchmans, deleted HUNDREDS OF TIMES because of anti-Semitic posts marked as such by even The Guardian moderators:##

Who are they trying to kid? CiF give no reasons for deleting posts.

October 17, 2009

Watching AKUS make a fool of himself on CiFWatch. Another idiot for Israel


Shortlink http://wp.me/pDB7k-fS

This is a guest post by AKUS

“This is not a critique of the fatally flawed Goldstone report itself, which has been ably carried out by many more competent experts than me and which could be continued pointlessly ad infinitum. Even the announcement advertising the discussion of the report this week and the terms of reference for the “fact-finding mission” reveal the bizarre world which the UNHRC inhabits which makes such discussions essentially meaningless and certainly fruitless:

The holding of the Special Session comes at the request of Palestine.

There is no such country as “Palestine”. In the Draft Resolution the word “Palestine” is given an asterisk, and a footnote explains that it is a “Non-Member State of the Human Rights Council”. In fact, it is a non-state, non-member of the Human Rights Council.

A) AKUS is an expert now? WOW!!!
B) United Nations Charter Article 35

l. Any Member of the United Nations may bring any dispute, or any situation of the nature referred to in Article 34, to the attention of the Security Council or of the General Assembly.

2. A state which is not a Member of the United Nations may bring to the attention of the Security Council or of the General Assembly any dispute to which it is a party if it accepts in advance, for the purposes of the dispute, the obligations of pacific settlement provided in the present Charter.

C) The LoN Mandate for Palestine refers to the LoN Charter article 22, under which Palestine held the status of a Provisional State. This status has never legally altered. A Provisional State that has been hacked away by the formation of Jordan and Israel. What remains of the Provisional State of Palestine is still Palestine. It has not been renamed since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. When you eat half an apple what’s left? Apple or does it magically change into something else, perhaps AKUS’s ziocaine induced Hasbara bullsh*te?

Some expert AKUS turns out to be.

There is, in fact, no need to read the report in order to anticipate its methods and conclusions. It is more interesting to look at how it has been received, and what actions will be taken as a result.

Uh huh. ‘in fact’? ‘In fact’, IT’S JUST YOUR OPINION! (I guess he just ‘listens’ to the moaning of the losing team in order to ‘watch’ a football match)

D) Furthermore, under the UN Charter Chapt XI, Israel, as the Occupying Power, has a duty towards the Palestinians. To protect them, their property and their territory and to assist them in achieving effective independent statehood.

October 10, 2009

Watching AKUS put it’s shoes on backwards at CifWatch….again


The busy little beaver AKUS at CiFWatch sure knows how to put things through the Ziofier.

The headline on CiF….Circumcision – above the law? In anything other than a religious context, male circumcision would be regarded as a crime.
……is surely warning enough that what follows is a dialogue looking at the situation whereby, under the law, a male sexual organ may be mutilated on religious grounds.

However, the Ziofied headline on CiFWatch blares out FGM Represented on CiF as a ‘Freedom’ and ‘Equal Rights’ Issue .

In order to reach this startling confusion (sic), there’s a number of mandatory steps that must be taken from the Ziofier handbook. 1st ignore the bulk of the article. 2nd concentrate on a couple of sentences. 3rd Mis-construe ’em.

AKUS missed “the most cogent argument against circumcision – the fact that it is fundamentally at odds with English law.”

Missed “The term “genital mutilation” sounds far less civilised that the commonly used term “circumcision”. Yet the former is only ever used in relation to the removal of parts of female reproductive organs, and the latter, generally, for the removal of the foreskin from a male’s penis. Make no mistake, a circumcision is the mutilation of genitals regardless of the terminology.”

Missed ALL of this “Male children from the Jewish and Muslim faiths have their foreskins removed at a young age under as part of religious practice. This is an irreversible procedure that would otherwise be classed as grievous bodily harm, contrary to section 18 of the Offences Against the Persons Act 1861. The fact that it is performed with parental consent has been deemed sufficient in allowing this procedure to be performed under English law.

The argument that parental consent suffices to override the law falls flat when compared with the act of tattooing. The Tattooing of Minors Act prohibits the tattooing of any person under 18, regardless of whether a parent consents on their behalf. A tattoo is arguably less permanent than a circumcision. If a person must reach the age of 18 before being deemed able to understand and consent to the permanence of a tattoo, then why should this not apply to a male child being circumcised?”

Missed this “Furthermore, if circumcision of males is allowed on religious grounds, then the ruling in the case of Adesanya must have been erroneous. The court here decided that a Nigerian woman could be prosecuted for cutting her teenaged sons’ faces according to her cultural norms. It seems that freedom to commit GBH only extends to males, and only then of particular faiths or cultural backgrounds.”

Missed all but two sentences “Why then is male circumcision allowed at any age, and female circumcision proscribed even after a woman turns 18? Surely religious freedom cannot be given solely to males.”

Which is of course, a dig at the law, rather than advocating FGM. The law is an ass. If you’re Jewish/Muslim and a male, we can have some non-medical practitioner mutilate your penis, with impunity.

You’ve done it again CiFWatch, congratulations.

October 4, 2009

Watching CifWatch lower themselves, resorting to toilet humour….


Unable to actually quote anything I’ve ever said said that fits their criteria, the folk who are unable to honestly address difficult questions on CiF or here. The same people who declare on their web site : “The voice of opponents no less than that of friends has a right to be heard”, proudly announce …..
Time for Some Toilet Humor…Ever wondered why certain Guardianistas are able to spend so much time online talknicing out of their backsides…”

The irony of the ‘humor’ they’ve chosen to exhibit, their childish vindictiveness and choice of words, seems to escape them. It serves Israel how exactly? Who’d want to be associated with such people, let alone believe anything they have to say? If they’re representative of Israel, Israelis or Jewish folk, do they realize what kind of an ugly, spitefull, picture they’re presenting?

AKUS (re-appeared recently on CiF as Akusia ?), who is unable to produce a map of Israel’s Sovereign territory, because no doubt it’s too embarrassing, bravely leads the comments


October 4, 2009 at 12:32 am
AKUS
Indeed!
Typical outback humor!! And then, when the mods get into action – all those long, long, nitpicking comments just flushed down the toilet….
Free Eora! The Cadigals will rise again!!


October 4, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Chas N-B
Superb! Shows they are going through the motions and that it’s good that CifWatch is flushing them out. I love how you guys cut the crap.
CifWatch: wiping clean the marble and smashing the cistern!
(Enough already.)

Indeed. Enough already to show folk who it is running off to the mods in what appears now as a self confessed and concerted effort to have folk banned, rather than addressing the points those folk might raise. Which makes their credo “The voice of opponents no less than that of friends has a right to be heard” seem rather incongruous and more than a tad shallow.

Enough already to show how un-aware AKUS is of his own transparency, blabbering on in ignorance about people with whom I have a close relationship and who he claimed were wiped out.

Enough already to show Chas N-B’s ‘toilet’ vocabulary has him in appropriate company.

How sad. In a world where real Antisemitism actually exists and should by all means be revealed, CiFWatch is busy revealing it’s adherents to be nothing more than hypocrites and sad little gutter snipes.

September 24, 2009

They lie at CiFWatch, they lie at the Olive Branch


…It’s actually quite simple. If it isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel,
then it’s a territory of the non-state entity of Palestine…

ShortLink http://wp.me/pDB7k-8B

If people tell outright lies on a talkbored, why should anyone believe anything they say? Answer, you can’t!!

Apart from refusing my registration to Olive Branch, despite their claim “ALL are welcome to join in”, and the fact that the whole premise of the thread Israel ‘occupies’ no Arab territories, is a blatant lie , they bear false witness. Which of course is completely against the basic tenets of Judaism.

ItsikDeWembley

Peter,

You seem to forget something very important.
Western Galilee, and Tel Katsir to Almagor.
We have gained use of that small strip around the Kineret – which was not intended for our use, slopes of Naftali mountains – same, and the entire Western Galilee – From Safed to Akko.

Yeterday, reading comments in The Guardian, a regular poster calls himself “Talknic” seems to counter your opinion about the Palestinian aspirations prior to 1967 as a result that no borders were declared between 1949 and 1967.

This, in my opinion, shows his / hers true intentions that either the armestice lines of 1949 should be moved back to the original patition plan (absurd idea) or that Zionism is not a valid movement and Jews do not have the right to self govern and a national movement.

Needless to say that many agree with him in that forum.
The one state solutioners all fit this line of thoughts.

Arrafat’s finest troops.

A) I’ve never advocated Israel move back to any armistice lines, because 1) Armistice lines are not borders unless they were borders before the armistice 2) Borders were never ‘declared’ in 1949/50 and Israel has never legally annexed any territory.
B) Neither here anywhere else, have I ever advocated a one state solution.

Another LIE


Re: A Time To Speak Out – Joel Schalit – Margie » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:15 pm

“Alas, history proves you wrong. By 1949 Israel had grown some what from it’s apportioned lot under 181.”

I answered him as follows:

Well done Talknic: what good misdirection. ‘Israel had grown’ as if it were Israel’s fault that she was attacked by all her neighbouring countries and had the cheek of not succumbing!

Really? I wonder where she gets her information. Certainly not from anything I’ve ever written

Another LIE

Some one named Talknic was doubting the Ahmedinajad was a foot soldier in the 80’s which performed many acts of war crimes (if you can say a war was hapening…) I tend to believe the following Iranian guy who said he was there. …

Evidence? NIL NOUGHT NADA NO THING

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