First, find out what isn't true…

April 29, 2010

Israel vs the entity of Palestine. Is Ashkelon in Israel? Maps. Declared and non-declared territories.


…It’s actually quite simple. If it isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel,
then it’s the territory of what remains of Palestine since Jordan and Israel declared their Sovereign Independence from Palestine in 1946 & 1948. Neither are a part of Palestine, nor is it a part of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel

ShortLink http://wp.me/pDB7k-tM

Plan Dalet was instigated in the months prior to Declaration, exacerbating and escalating the existing civil war. By 15h May 1948 Jewish forces were already outside of the territories allocated for a Jewish State under UNGA res 181 and which the Jewish Agency had accepted as “binding”. The moment Israel was declared an independent state, what had been a civil war in Palestine, became a war waged by the self declared Independent Sovereign State of Israel on what remained of the non-self-governing territory that remained of Palestine.

The basis of Israel’s recognition by the majority of the International Community of Nations/States (over riding the Arab states legal objections), is the : Letter from the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States, May 15, 1948 “MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.” Also The US acknowledgement has ‘Jewish State’ crossed out and replaced with the “State of Israel”.

The US recognized Israel, 11 minutes after it was declared. “…. within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947” . The recognition of the limits of Israel’s sovereign extent, echoed by the British after an Israeli Government was elected to the State of Israel and confirmed by the Provisional Israeli Government on May 22nd 1948 at the same time acknowledging Palestine as a separate entity to Israel, has been the basis of the UN and UNSC resolutions for Israel’s actions in “territories, outside the State of Israel” . Actions that have been contrary to the Laws, the UN Charter, the Conventions Israel has ratified and the Chapter VI resolutions the UNSC has passed against Israel’s actions outside of its sovereign extent.

The US veto in the UNSC on Chapt VII resolutions which would find Israel facing the consequences of its illegal actions, is irreconcilable with the official US recognition of Israel on May 15th 1948 and Israel’s illegal territorial acquisitions since being recognized.

By Israel being declared an Independent State, the territories that remained of Palestine, now bounded by the new State of Israel and the four surrounding Arab States were by default, A) not Israeli and; B) independent of Israel.

Israel has never legally annexed ANY territories! Not the “territories occupied” during the ’67 war, OR the territories ‘acquired’ by war by the time the Armistice Agreements were signed in 1949, when Israel was a UN Member state, bound to the Charter in its entirety

Before Israel was admitted to the UN, it was already by International Law inadmissible to ‘acquired’ territory by war. Any war. The law does not differentiate between defensive, aggressive, legal illegal or preemptive war. (see difference between ‘acquire’ and ‘restore’ according to the oft quoted (Professor) Stephen M. Schwebel .

Even territory captured in war must be legally annexed through a referendum of the citizens of the territory to be annexed, sans the citizens of the state wishing to annex. (see the legal annexation of Texas by the USA) So too the annexation of Alaska and Hawaii, both by the same legal process. By which the US itself was instrumental in the legal custom of annexation passing into the Customary International Law and on which UNSC res 252 and its eight reminders are based. It was also instrumental in forming the basis of self determination.

The legal precedent being set by the US itself, is rather irreconcilable with the US veto vote on Chapter VII resolutions in the UNSC, especially as the US recognized Israel as the Israeli Government pleaded to be recognized!

Maps (ShortLink to these maps http://wp.me/pDB7k-tM#maps )
DETAILED Partition Overlay Map (dotted blue lines) for Google Earth
Including the detailed text of the recommended boundaries Israel declared and were acknowledged by the majority of the International Community of nations.
1947 Partition Google Earth Overlay
How to adjust the transparency of the overlay in Google Earth

Partition boundaries accepted by Israel
Enlarge – used in the overlay

Link to here
Exactly WHO is being wiped off the map?
Who is being wiped off the map?
(rough representation only)

LinkTo this section http://wp.me/pDB7k-tM#isdud-vs-ashdod

The Isdud of Palestine 1948 is not the Ashdod of Israel 2010

The Isdud referenced in the 1948 /50 war – 31°45’11.38″N 34°39’47.21″E
Was within the territory allocated to what remained of the entity of Palestine post May 14th 1948.
It is incorrect to say the Arab States attacked Ashdod in Israel. It didn’t exist in Israel in 1948/50
The Ashdod of Israel was only established in 1956.
Egyptian forces went as far as the Isdud of 1948/50

“From the southern point of intersection the boundary lines run north-westwards between the villages of Gan Yavne and Barqa to the sea at a point half way between Nabi Yunis and Minat El-Qila, and south-eastwards to a point west of Qastina, whence it turns in a south-westerly direction, passing to the east of the built-up areas of Es Sawafir Esh Sharqiya and ‘Ibdis.”
Google Overlay

Isdud Palestine 1948 vs Ashdod Israel 2010 (kmz file)

The Asdod of 1956/2011 occupies an area closer to the coast.
The boundaries of the city mirror almost exactly the coastal sands at 45′.
They traverse the declared boundary to the South of 45′. The territory South of Israel’s declared boundary at the West coast has never been legally annexed to Israel.


(ShortLink to non-annexed territories http://wp.me/pDB7k-tM#nonannexed-territories )
Israel has never legally annexed these territories to it’s sovereignty! Neither the British, the US or Russia acknowledged them as Israeli

northern territories southern territories

Bee’er Sheba (Sheva)
(ShortLink to this map http://wp.me/pDB7k-tM#beersheba )
https://talknic.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/beersheba.jpg

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8 Comments »


  1. Talknic
    YK is Yishai Kohen a settler from Hebron..He spammed my site and As’ad Abu Khalil’s site for quite some time before he was flushed away..He had admitted that while serving in the occupied territories, he had subjected the Palestinians to endless harassment, abuse and vruelty..His sentences are the same and NEVER vary, neither in structure nor in substance..Tease, taunt and provoke category ..His other nic is the delicious ‘Peace Now'(!)

    Comment by thankgodimatheist — November 1, 2010 @ 4:38 am


    • I doubt even they believe the crap they write.

      The thought that they might be paid propagandistas amuses me. Like hiring a herd of rhinoceros to polish the crystal.

      Comment by talknic — November 1, 2010 @ 5:51 am


  2. The Jewish people are the legal sovereign over the entire of Palestine under international law.

    Comment by maximalistNarrative — October 31, 2010 @ 5:20 am


    • Lemme see if I got this right.

      According to you, a schmuck who gives a fake email address and a link to the vile illegal settlers propaganda for schmucks web site…

      …Israel, the homeland state of the Jewish people, is sovereign over a non-state entity it is not a part of?

      WOW! What an interesting little theory…

      Say, schmuck….Did you know Israel was declared independent of the non-state entity of Palestine on May 14th 1948? Did you also know that in the Declaration for the Establishment of the State of Israel, FIRST LINE, it says On May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over Palestine expired…”

      I guess the Jewish People’s Council just didn’t know what they were talking about when they wrote the declaration, right?

      The International Community of States was then informed by the Provisional Government of Israel to the effect that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.” On this basis, the majority of the International Community of Nations recognized Israel, over riding the Arab States legal objections.

      Unfortunately your theory is drivel. Never the less, let’s work through it, just to show any one reading how moronic and pathetic your idiotic little theory is:

      There is no mention of a Jewish ‘State’ in ANY International Law. It would be against the notions of Independence for International Law to tell an Independent state it must be Jewish.

      The Balfour Declaration was not International Law and it didn’t mention any Jewish ‘State’, in fact Balfour seemed rather aghast at the notion

      There is no mention of a Jewish ‘State’ in the Mandate for Palestine.

      The Mandate for Palestine – Article 7 The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine

      It is further reiterated in the two White Papers

      Although it mentions a ‘Jewish State’ in UNGA res 181, A) Law is binding, UNGA Res 181 was not binding B) UNGA Res 181 specified the boundaries for the Jewish State, which the Jewish People’s Council accepted without reservation and Declared Sovereignty over them. Sovereignty IS binding.

      Now you run along and post your ignorant, stupid, braindead, BULLSH*TE somewhere else, maybe on a pre-school blog, I’m sure you’ll be a hit!!

      Comment by talknic — October 31, 2010 @ 9:09 am


  3. You’re like the guy who murders his parents and then cries to the court to have mercy because you’re an orphan.

    The simple fact is that the Philistines could have had a state in peace, but chose war on MANY occasions- INSTEAD:

    The Philistines would have had a state IN PEACE in 1937 with the Peel Plan, but they violently rejected it.

    They would have had a state IN PEACE in 1939 with the MacDonald White Paper, but they violently rejected it (and Jews would have even been restricted from BUYING land from Arabs).

    They would have had a state IN PEACE in 1948 with UN 181, but they violently rejected it (and actually claimed that the UN had no such mandate!).

    They could have had a state IN PEACE in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza from 1948-1967 without any Jews- because the Arabs had ethnically cleansed every last one; but they violently rejected it. In fact, that’s exactly when they established Fatah (1959) and the PLO (1964).

    They could have had a state IN PEACE after 1967, but instead, the entire Arab world issued the Khartoum Resolutions:

    A. No peace with Israel
    B. No recognition of Israel
    C. No negotiations with Israel

    They would have had a state IN PEACE in 2000 with the Oslo Accords, but they violently rejected it- as always.

    The Arabs will just have to learn to “make do” with their own 99.9% of the Middle East- including all of the oil, and stop trying to steal OUR tiny 1/10th of 1% without oil. The Philistines won’t have a state here in Israel, and if they don’t stop their violence, they won’t even exist here anymore. They will be gone- sent back to their own lands elsewhere.

    And THEN there will be peace.

    Comment by YK — August 31, 2010 @ 8:24 am


    • “You’re like the guy who murders his parents and then cries to the court to have mercy because you’re an orphan”

      Uh huh.. Great opening, irrelevant and unwarranted insult.

      “The simple fact is that the Philistines could have had a state in peace, but chose war on MANY occasions”

      Facts are true. A) what war did the Palestinians start? B) When has the non-state entity of Palestine NOT been under the control of some other entity? In order to declare Sovereign statehood, according to the JCPA, it must control all of it’s territories. Which is why the Declaration of a Jewish State came into effect at “… one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.” AFTER the British Mandate (occupation) ended.

      “The Philistines would have had a state IN PEACE in 1937 with the Peel Plan, but they violently rejected it.”

      The 20th Zionist Congress also rejected it and continued funding it’s violence. “the Congress decided to reject the specific borders recommended by the Peel Commission “

      It was a description of ‘probabilities’, “should there be” partition. The words “shall be” are missing. Nothing binding. They were not obliged to accept the ‘probable outcome’ of the terms described, being an occupied “Sovereignty”.

      One ‘probability’ they were certainly not obliged to accept, was an agreement for “the most strenuous efforts” to ethnically cleanse themselves. Especially as the people of Palestine were not responsible for the plight of Jewish folk else where in the world. It’s ironic that Theodor Herzl lived at a time when he could have easily and freely lived in Palestine, as a Jew, ANYWHERE. By 1882, thousands of Jews had already immigrated to Palestine, bought land and settled. By 1903, thousands more. He didn’t.

      Meanwhile, who, in their right mind, would accept the following “probability”?

      League of Nations 30 November 1937 C.495.M.336.1937.VI. Geneva, November 30th, 1937

      8 “it seems probable that, in the event of Partition, “ … 9 “In the event of Partition” … 10 “If Partition is to be effective ….. … Those areas, therefore, should be surveyed and an estimate made of the practical possibilities of irrigation and development as quickly as possible. If, as a result, it is clear that a substantial amount of land could be made available for the re-settlement of Arabs living in the Jewish area, the most strenuous efforts should be made to obtain an agreement for the transfer of land and population.”

      Chapter X. – Conclusion
      It means that the Arabs must acquiesce in the exclusion from their sovereignty of a piece of territory, long occupied and once ruled by them.”

      It means that the Jews must be content with less than the Land of Israel they once ruled and have hoped to rule again.

      “We’re just gonna take a part of your SOVEREIGNTY, GIVE it to some other guys. It’s OK though, ’cause they’ll have to suffer the pain of being content!”

      “They would have had a state IN PEACE in 1939 with the MacDonald White Paper, but they violently rejected it (and Jews would have even been restricted from BUYING land from Arabs).”

      Er Independence. Look it up. The occupier is telling the entity to declare independence. The very notion of independence is UNILATERAL. Furthermore it would have been a Palestinian State AND the Zionist Congress rejected it.

      “They would have had a state IN PEACE in 1948 with UN 181, but they violently rejected it (and actually claimed that the UN had no such mandate!).”

      Read the UN Charter. It did not have the mandate. AND Jewish forces were already in control of territory slated for the new Arab state by the time the British Mandate (occupation) ended, one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time. So no, they couldn’t have declared Sovereign Independence. Look up ‘independence’

      “They could have had a state IN PEACE in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza from 1948-1967 without any Jews- because the Arabs had ethnically cleansed every last one; but they violently rejected it. In fact, that’s exactly when they established Fatah (1959) and the PLO (1964).”

      Israel was in control of territories OUTSIDE of Israel’s actual Sovereign territories, slated for the Arab state. Israel would have had to withdraw, it wouldn’t and didn’t.

      “They could have had a state IN PEACE after 1967, but instead, the entire Arab world issued the Khartoum Resolutions”

      Israel was in control of territories OUTSIDE of Israel’s actual Sovereign territories, slated for the Arab state. Israel would have had to withdraw, it wouldn’t and didn’t.

      “They would have had a state IN PEACE in 2000 with the Oslo Accords, but they violently rejected it- as always.”

      Israel was in control of territories OUTSIDE of Israel’s actual Sovereign territories, slated for the Arab state. Israel would have had to withdraw, it wouldn’t and didn’t.

      Ask yourself, if you dare, why the Declaration of a Jewish State became “…effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.” AN entity cannot declare Sovereign Independence whilst any of it’s territories are under the control of another entity.

      Should negotiations under way now be successful, Israel will still HAVE to withdraw from all non-Israeli territories BEFORE any Palestinian declaration comes into effect. If the Palestinian declaration is recognized, the Palestinians will then have to form a State Government (State first, then State Government). Only then can there be a peace agreement between the state of Israel and the state of Palestine.

      And THEN there will be peace.

      “The Arabs will just have to learn to “make do” with their own 99.9% of the Middle East- including all of the oil, and stop trying to steal OUR tiny 1/10th of 1% without oil. The Philistines won’t have a state here in Israel, and if they don’t stop their violence”

      The Palestinians are NOT citizens of the other Arab states. The Arabs have not tried to steal ANY Israeli territory. The Palestinians do not want a state in Israel, it’s a legal impossibility (you do read what you write). They will not stop resisting as long as they are occupied. Our Jewish terrorists didn’t until we got our state (admirable no?)

      “, they won’t even exist here anymore. They will be gone- sent back to their own lands elsewhere.”

      A) People who advocate ethnic cleansing are quite sick. B) They have no lands elsewhere.

      Comment by talknic — September 1, 2010 @ 3:15 pm


  4. very impressive, one big thumb up; keep up the good work, good luck

    Comment by visitor — August 22, 2010 @ 9:32 am


    • Thanks :-)

      Comment by talknic — August 22, 2010 @ 2:33 pm


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