First, find out what isn't true…

September 16, 2013

Stupid Israeli propaganda for people who don’t think

Filed under: Israel & the Palestinians — Tags: , , , , , — talknic @ 7:09 pm

ShortLink http://wp.me/pDB7k-19Y

If you examine the Israeli narrative on the issue of Arabs/Palestine, it never seems to add up.

E.g., “20% of the Israeli population was Arab” These kind of statements attempt to belittle Arab existence

By 1950 the population of Israel was 1,370,000

There were at least 156,000 non-Jewish Arabs in Israel and some 500,000 Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab states

That’s 656,000 Arabs of a population of about 1,370,000

Which is about 47% not including the indigenous Arab Jews of Israel!

The closer you look the more bullsh*t you find

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45 Comments »

  1. “If I work for “Hasbara CentraL” what outfit do you work for?”

    http://talknic.wordpress.com/about/

    Comment by talknic — July 16, 2014 @ 6:38 pm ”

    You may be an “old bloke in Oz” verging on senile dementia, but I’m an intelligent (and very handsome) young fellow (well, I suppose I am entering early middle age) who divides his time between NYC, the world’s capital, and Jerusalem, Israel’s capital. I can count 18 generations of my paternal family residing continously in Eretz Yisrael, and I was the first to be born outside of the Jewish historical homeland in my father’s family. Nobody Hasbara Central pays me, but I do like flogging dead kangaroos, I guess. :-)))

    Comment by Mikhael — July 16, 2014 @ 9:47 pm

    • “You may be an “old bloke in Oz” verging on senile dementia” 1st & last warning …. you’re off topic. You’ll be banned with a notice showing readers why.

      Comment by talknic — July 17, 2014 @ 2:14 am

  2. Here are two pics of the front of the famed Abulafia Boulangerie/restaurant –Arab (Not Jewish!)-owned and operated since 1879. Where’s the Arabic on the sign?

    In the case of Aboulafia, everyone in Israel knows it’s an Arab-run business Other restaurants owned by Arabs (Not Jewish!) in Tel Aviv and other parts of Israel with majority Jewish populations may not necessarily advertise their Arab background, but won’t deny it if asked.

    Comment by Mikhael — July 2, 2014 @ 5:43 pm

    • So what? The dialogue of the proprietors in the video tell us they’re Jewish.

      Comment by talknic — July 15, 2014 @ 5:35 pm

    • re “So what? The dialogue of the proprietors in the video tell us they’re Jewish.
      Comment by talknic — July 15, 2014 @ 5:35 pm ”

      Some of the proprietors/workers were clearly Jewish. Except for the ones who said they’re Arab. Their candid, proud admission of their Arab identity as evidenced by their dialogue–“I’m Arab” amounts to a declaration of non-Jewishness in an Israeli context. Any Israeli (Jewish or Arab) understands this–although senile geezers in Australia with no Hebrew seem to have a hard time with it.

      Comment by Mikhael — July 16, 2014 @ 8:08 pm

      • “Some of the proprietors/workers were clearly Jewish. “

        Is the ziocaine wearing off?

        “”I’m Arab” amounts to a declaration of non-Jewishness in an Israeli context. “

        Some of the proprietors/workers who were clearly Jewish disagree with you pal.

        “although senile geezers in Australia with no Hebrew seem to have a hard time with it.

        Cute. Keep riding the rotting corpse, it suits you

        Comment by talknic — July 17, 2014 @ 2:01 am

  3. Most nobody self-identifies as “Arab”. Or not anyone in Palestine anymore, anyway. Palestinians seem to identify themselves as such.

    Benny Morris in “Righteous Victims” p. 65 has the Palestinians referring to themselves as such years earlier:

    … an anonymous petition entitled “General Summons to the Palestinians,” published and distributed in June 1914: “Countrymen! We summon you in the name of the country which is in mourning … in the name of Arabia, in the name of Syria, in the name of our country, Palestine, whose lot is evil:” Calling on the people to cling to Palestine “with their teeth,” it continued: “Have pity on your land and do not sell it as merchandise…. At least let your children inherit the country which your fathers gave you as an inheritance…. Men! Do you … want to be slaves and servants to people who are notorious in the world and in history? Do you want to be slaves to the Zionists who have come … to expel you from your country, saying that this country is theirs?” The combined local Arab pressures persuaded Constantinople to backpedal and reassert the restrictions on Jews.[127. Mandel, Neville. The Arabs and Zionism before World War L Berkeley: University of California Press, 1976. p.174-77.]

    A fairly large contingent of Palestinian Arabs immigrated into Chile in the first two decades of the 20th century, and on 20 August 1920 they founded a soccer club and called it Club Deportivo Palestino.

    Comment by William Smart — September 18, 2013 @ 6:56 pm

    • The book ‘Remembering and Imagining Palestine’ by Haim Gerber traces the Palestinian identity back to the crusades, and even further. (No Kindle edition, so I haven’t read it.)

      Comment by walktallhangloose — September 19, 2013 @ 6:37 am

  4. Well yes, but:

    Israel identity law regards ‘Jew’ and ‘Arab’ as exclusive terms. Palestine regards Arabic or Judeo-Arabic speaking Jews as Arabs. The question is, do Misrahim self-identify as Arab-Jews. For what it is worth, according to the Wikipedia page ‘Arab Jews’, mostly not.

    Comment by walktallhangloose — September 17, 2013 @ 12:30 pm

    • i wouldn’t trust wiki, when i first read about Misrahim it identified them as arab jews, but now that’s not fashionable w/hasbara or the state of israel. but if you ask arab jews, like the video “Why did the Israelis steal hummus from the Arabs?” listen to the responses, many of the israeli arab jews answer ‘i am Arab’. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdb7TFqLBSw

      Comment by annie fofani (@anniefofani) — January 1, 2014 @ 12:37 am

      • The original post concerned the percentage of Arabs and Jews in the Israeli population. If talking numbers, you should not double count the Arab Jews as both Jews and Arabs as the arithmetic is then wrong.

        Comment by Walk Tall Hang Loose — January 1, 2014 @ 7:54 pm

        • The original post concerned the number of Arabs and no group was counted twice

          There were at least 156,000 non-Jewish Arabs in Israel and some 500,000 Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab states

          That’s 656,000 Arabs of a population of about 1,370,000

          Which is about 47% not including the indigenous Arab Jews of Israel!

          The 156,000 non-Jewish Arabs pre-existed. The indigenous Jewish Palestinian Arabs are not included. There was an influx of some 500,000 Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab states.

          Comment by talknic — April 24, 2014 @ 3:39 pm

          • When Israelis say “20% of the population are Arabs” they mean that 80% are Jews, and 20% are non-Jews (who are nearly all Arabs). Every Israeli has an official nationality, which is either Jewish, or one of the recognized non-Jewish groups. Arab Jews are considered Jews, not Arabs. If you want to say that 47%+ of Israelis are Arabs, you have to make it clear that the rest are non-Arab Jews. You are making Arabness the primary distinction, whereas Israel makes Jewishness the primary distinction.

            Comment by walk tall hang loose — April 27, 2014 @ 3:54 pm

            • “Every Israeli has an official nationality, which is either Jewish, or one of the recognized non-Jewish groups.”
              An oxymoron.

              The State of Israel… it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants … it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; http://www.knesset.gov.il/docs/eng/megilat_eng.htm

              Israeli passports state “Nationality” as “Israeli”

              “Arab Jews are considered Jews, not Arabs.”

              “Israel makes Jewishness the primary distinction.”

              The opposite is non-Jewish, not Arab! My comment is specifically about the Arab population of Israel, inclusive of Jews and non-Jews.

              Comment by talknic — May 2, 2014 @ 2:36 am

              • Every Israeli adult has a registered identity which includes their ‘nationality’, sometimes translated as ‘ethnic group’, which is assigned by the State, and is one of a specified set of recognized ‘nationalities’, the main ones being Jewish, Arab, Druze and Circassian. Arab Jews are categorized as Jewish, not Arab. Some individuals who have petitioned to have their ‘nationality’ specified as ‘Israeli’ on their internal identity card have been refused.

                Comment by walk tall hang loose — May 2, 2014 @ 9:57 am

                • It shows how confused and convoluted the State of Israel’s policies have become. There is only one nationality on Israeli passports … “Israeli”. Anyone can become Jewish by religion, it doesn’t change their skin colour, eye shape, heritage, parents https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Chinese+Jews&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=96NpU4ThNIWPkAXow4HwDA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=932 The same applies to being an Arab Jew

                  Comment by talknic — May 7, 2014 @ 3:28 am

                  • It shows how confused and convoluted the State of Israel’s policies have become. There is only one nationality on Israeli passports … “Israeli”. Anyone can become Jewish by religion, it doesn’t change their skin colour, eye shape, heritage, parents
                    You may be confused, but the Israeli passport is clear. In Hebrew, “ezrahut”–which is more accurately translated as “citizenship” is listed for the passport bearer. This has been translated as “nationality” in English, which might be the source of your confusion, but the Hebrew is clear. The word for “nationality” in the Jewish national language, Hebrew, s “le’om”, not “ezrahut.” An Israeli citizen ezrah, whether of of Arab or Jewish nationality le’om is entitled to an Israeli passport.

                    Anyone can become Jewish by religion, it doesn’t change their skin colour, eye shape, heritage, parents

                    A non sequitur if there ever was one. Why are you conflating one’s race and skin color with one’s national identity? There are Arabs of all racial backgrounds too, black, white, and brown. What makes them Arab is their use of the Arab language and even more importantly, their identification with an Arab nation. Jews whose ancestors formerly lived in Arab-dominated countries or spoke Arabic-based Jewish dialects as a mother tongue, will however, almost never identify or cast their lot with Arab nationalism.

                    Converts may indeed join the Jewish religion, although this has historically been discouraged and always should be discouraged. When a convert adopts Judaism, however, he/she is traditionally regarded as having joined the Jewish nation. The proselyte par excellence is the Biblical Ruth the Moabitess, who said “Your people shall be my people–converts are supposed to be adopted into the Jewish nation and are grafted onto it. Non-religious Jews, people who will wolf down a ham-and-cheese sandwich on Yom Kippur and deny God’s existence, but are born to a Jewish family, however, are completely Jews. They are members of the Jewish nation by birth, with no need to undergo any “conversion” ritual.

                    Comment by Mikhael — July 2, 2014 @ 6:09 pm

                    • You really are stupid! The Passport pictured was issued by the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT!

                      Comment by talknic — July 8, 2014 @ 2:35 am

                    • re “You really are stupid! The Passport pictured was issued by the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT!

                      Comment by talknic — July 8, 2014 @ 2:35 am”

                      And what is your point? Ezrahut still is most accurately translated as “citizenship”, not “nationality”. The Hebrew line clearly says “ezrahut”. You proudly claim to be an “old Jewish guy living in Oz,” yet it seems to me you have zero knowledge of Hebrew. How can you pretend to have anything relevant to say on this issue?

                      As someone who holds an Israeli passport, and an Israeli ID card (teudat zehut) I am very familiar with the language on both. In accordance with international standards, the passport translates the Hebrew word for citizenship as “nationality,” because other countries confuse the two issues. But the Hebrew word ezrahut , as written in Hebrew on the Israeli passport clearly means “citizenship”. Israeli ID cards used to refer to “ha-le’om” –which means “nationality” in Hebrew. You can be of Jewish “le’om”, Arab “le’om”, but not Israeli “le’om”.

                      Hebrew lesson provided free of charge even to silly self-proclaimed Jewish gits in Oz.

                      Comment by Mikhael — July 15, 2014 @ 4:11 am

                    • “Ezrahut still is most accurately translated as “citizenship”, not “nationality”
                      Hebrew lesson provided free of charge even to silly self-proclaimed Jewish gits in Oz”

                      Intelligent hired help must be hard to come by at Hasbara central! The passport pictured was OFFICIALLY issued by the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. The translation says “Nationality”

                      Go complain to the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. Tell ‘em they got it wrong! I’m sure they’ll understand!

                      Comment by talknic — July 15, 2014 @ 5:45 pm

                    • re “Intelligent hired help must be hard to come by at Hasbara central! ”

                      If I work for “Hasbara CentraL” what outfit do you work for?

                      Comment by Mikhael — July 16, 2014 @ 7:55 am

                    • “If I work for “Hasbara CentraL” what outfit do you work for?”

                      http://talknic.wordpress.com/about/

                      Comment by talknic — July 16, 2014 @ 6:38 pm

          • re “The indigenous Jewish Palestinian Arabs are not included. ”

            There never was any such group as “indigenous Jewish Palestinian Arabs”.

            Prior to the beginning of modern political Zionist aliyot in the late 19th century, there was an indigenous Jewish community (from which I am descended)–some of whom spoke Arabic or Jewish-Arabic dialects (speaking Arabic doesn’t make one an Arab any more than speaking English makes one an Englishman), some of whom spoke Ladino (Judaeo-Spanish) or Yiddish as well–(yes, Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazi Jews had been present in large numbers in Ottoman-controlled Eretz Yisrael since the early 1700s–their late 19th/early 20th century decendents were indigenous Jews). By the early 20th century, most of the Jews of Eretz Yisrael spoke Hebrew.

            One can speak of “Palestinian Jews” during the period of the British Mandate, some “indigenous” , some recent immigrants. A Palestinian Jew was any Jew who accepted British Palestine Mandate citizenship from 1926-1948. (The Mandate began in 1917–but Palestinian citizenship was not issued until 1925.) David Ben Gurion, born in Plonsk, Poland, was a Palestinian Jew. Golda Meir, born in Kiev, raised in Milwaukee, was a Palestinian Jew. After the termination of the Mandate on May 15, 1948, Palestinian Jews ceased to exist and became Israeli Jews.

            Comment by Mikhael — July 17, 2014 @ 1:41 am

            • “There never was any such group as “indigenous Jewish Palestinian Arabs”.”

              No Jews ever married an Arab, no Arabs ever married a Jew and no Arabs ever converted to Judaism? Interesting theory. Pity it has been disproven by DNA.

              But OK Have it your way. There’s still a figure of about 47%

              “The Mandate began in 1917 ..”

              Before it was written in 1922. That’s AMAZING!

              “David Ben Gurion, born in Plonsk, Poland, was a Palestinian Jew”

              So, not from the region. On what date did he gain Palestinian citizenship?

              “Golda Meir, born in Kiev, raised in Milwaukee, was a Palestinian Jew”

              So, not from the region. On what date did she gain Palestinian citizenship?

              Comment by talknic — July 17, 2014 @ 2:37 am

              • re “No Jews ever married an Arab, no Arabs ever married a Jew and no Arabs ever converted to Judaism? Interesting theory. Pity it has been disproven by DNA.”

                Excuse me? Can you show me where I wrote anything that could remotely be construed as making a statement like the one you are concocting and attempting to attribute to me?
                I wrote there never was any such group as “indigenous Jewish Palestinian Arabs”.
                Some Jews in Eretz Yisrael spoke Arabic (or Jewish dialects of Arabic). They were not “Jewish Palestinian Arabs”. They did not identify with an Arab nation or a Palestinian nation. Hence–Jewish (check) Arab (no)–Palestinian (no). (As a general rule, Jews who married Arabs were Jewish women who married Muslim men, and converted to Islam. )

                re “Palestinian Jews” means one thing and one thing only: those Jews who held British Palestinian citizenship.
                “David Ben Gurion, born in Plonsk, Poland, was a Palestinian Jew”

                So, not from the region. On what date did he gain Palestinian citizenship?

                “Golda Meir, born in Kiev, raised in Milwaukee, was a Palestinian Jew”

                So, not from the region. On what date did she gain Palestinian citizenship?

                I deliberately offered non-native born Jews such as Ben Gurion and Meir to show you how ludicrous the notion of “Palestinian Jew” is. My family (on my father’s side) resided in Galillee and Jerusalem for some five and a half centuries prior to the British conquest of Eretz Yisrael and the establishment of the Mandate. My paternal grandparents–born in Ottoman-ruled Jerusalem in 1900 and 1903, respectively, became Palestinian citizens for the first time in 1925, when Palestinian citizenship was invented–at the same time Ben Gurion and Meir obtained Palestinian citizenship.

                re ““The Mandate began in 1917 ..”

                Before it was written in 1922. That’s AMAZING!”

                An error on my part–I was of course referring to the year of British conquest of the country from the Turks–not the establishment of the League of Nations Mandate. I meant to fix it, but your blog has no edit function like Mondoweiss.

                You see how easy it is to admit a mistake? You’ve made many more than tI have–e.g., calling the non-Arab Mizrahi Jews Arabs–confusing the Israeli concept of ezrahut (citizenship) with that of “le’om” (nationality), etc.

                Comment by Mikhael — July 17, 2014 @ 3:56 am

                • “re “No Jews ever married an Arab, no Arabs ever married a Jew and no Arabs ever converted to Judaism? Interesting theory. Pity it has been disproven by DNA.”

                  Excuse me?Can you show me where I wrote anything that could remotely be construed as making a statement like the one you are concocting and attempting to attribute to me?”

                  I’m attempting to attribute something to you without quoting you. Interesting theory…

                  Care to answer the question…. thx

                  “I deliberately offered non-native born Jews such as Ben Gurion and Meir to show you how ludicrous the notion of “Palestinian Jew” is”

                  Weird stuff you must be shooting up or snorting. Are these yours: “David Ben Gurion, born in Plonsk, Poland, was a Palestinian Jew” … “Golda Meir, born in Kiev, raised in Milwaukee, was a Palestinian Jew”

                  “You see how easy it is to admit a mistake? You’ve made many more than tI have–e.g., calling the non-Arab Mizrahi Jews Arabs–confusing the Israeli concept of ezrahut (citizenship) with that of “le’om” (nationality), etc”

                  Care to quote these mistakes verbatim? Failure will result in you being banned buddy!

                  Comment by talknic — July 17, 2014 @ 6:02 am

                  • re “I’m attempting to attribute something to you without quoting you. Interesting theory…”

                    Why did you bring up that non-responsive, non sequitur then? Were you just babbling to yourself? I certainly did not make the statement that “No Jews ever married an Arab, no Arabs ever married a Jew and no Arabs ever converted to Judaism?” so why did you feel the need to type “Interesting theory. Pity it has been disproven by DNA.” Since we were discussing a matter of national identity–you are the one who claims that the millions of Mizrahi Jews in Israel, those whose forefathers lived in the country for centuries prior to the Jewish national renaissance known as modern political Zionism and those who migrated to the country as part of that renaissance, during the waning Ottoman years, and in the British mandate years up to and after the founding of the State of Israel are to be counted as part of an Arab majority in the country, despite the fact that overwhelmingly this population does not identify as Arab.

                    re “Weird stuff you must be shooting up or snorting. Are these yours: “David Ben Gurion, born in Plonsk, Poland, was a Palestinian Jew” … “Golda Meir, born in Kiev, raised in Milwaukee, was a Palestinian Jew””

                    Not mine, just fact. David Ben Gurion was a Palestinian Jew from 1925 until 1948. Golda Meir was a Palestinian Jew from 1925 until 1948. They ceased being Palestinian Jews (and became Israeli Jews) when Palestine ceased to exist. A Palestinian Jew refers to a Jew (David Ben Gurion and Golda Meir were both Jews) who acquired Palestinian citizenship (Favid Ben Gurion and Golda Meir aquired Palestinian citizneship under the British)under the British. “Palestinian” is not an ethnicity, but a political status. All the Jews legally resident in British Mandate Palestine, whether they were descended from long-term residents (like my father’s family) or more recent arrivals, became Palestinian Jews.

                    re ““You see how easy it is to admit a mistake? You’ve made many more than tI have–e.g., calling the non-Arab Mizrahi Jews Arabs–confusing the Israeli concept of ezrahut (citizenship) with that of “le’om” (nationality), etc”

                    Care to quote these mistakes verbatim? Failure will result in you being banned buddy!”

                    Easy! You write:

                    There were at least 156,000 non-Jewish Arabs in Israel and some 500,000 Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab states

                    That’s 656,000 Arabs of a population of about 1,370,000

                    Which is about 47% not including the indigenous Arab Jews of Israel!

                    You erroneously categorize Israeli Jews from Arab countries as Arabs and include them in the Arab population of Israel. This is false. My ex-wife, a native-born Israeli born to Iraqi Jews who came to Israel as refugees from Arab persecution in Iraq, is not an Arab. Her parents are not Arabs. My twin daughters are not Arab. My great-grandfather, a Jew born in the city of Alleppo, then part of the Ottoman Empire, now part of Syria (perhaps soon to be part of the Islamic State of Iraq in the Levant) was not an Arab. My brother-in-law (from a Yemenite-Jewish family) is not an Arab.My other brother-in-law, born in France to a Jewish family that emigrated from Tunisia and later to Israel is not Arab. Israeli Jews with roots in Arab countries (with very few exceptions) overwhelmingly do not consider themselves to be Arab. Those that do are part of a small fringe minority who have a political axe to grind. You are not an Israeli Jew (it is dubious whether you are even a Jew), you do not understand Israeli culture or yje Hebrew language, therefore you really have nothing relevant to say on this issue.

                    Comment by Mikhael — July 17, 2014 @ 10:45 am

                    • ” I certainly did not make the statement that “No Jews ever married an Arab, no Arabs ever married a Jew and no Arabs ever converted to Judaism?”

                      Correct. So I didn’t quote you.

                      “so why did you feel the need to type “Interesting theory. Pity it has been disproven by DNA.” “

                      What you DID write leads to that conclusion.

                      “you are the one who claims that the millions of Mizrahi Jews in Israel, those whose forefathers lived in the country for centuries prior to the Jewish national renaissance known as modern political Zionism and those who migrated to the country as part of that renaissance, during the waning Ottoman years, and in the British mandate years up to and after the founding of the State of Israel are to be counted as part of an Arab majority in the country, despite the fact that overwhelmingly this population does not identify as Arab.”

                      Quote me… and again what is it you don’t get about “were” aka past tense?

                      “David Ben Gurion was a Palestinian Jew from 1925 until 1948. Golda Meir was a Palestinian Jew from 1925 until 1948″

                      So there was such a thing as a Palestinian Jew

                      ” “Palestinian” is not an ethnicity, but a political status.”

                      It was a nationality according to the Palestinian passport of the time. Like the Israeli passport and every other passport in the world says… “Nationality”, then gives the country.

                      “All the Jews legally resident in British Mandate Palestine, whether they were descended from long-term residents (like my father’s family) or more recent arrivals, became Palestinian Jews”

                      Yes. Precisely. Nationality … Palestinian

                      //Care to quote these mistakes verbatim? Failure will result in you being banned buddy!”//

                      “Easy! You write:

                      “There were at least 156,000 non-Jewish Arabs in Israel and some 500,000 Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab states

                      That’s 656,000 Arabs of a population of about 1,370,000

                      Which is about 47% not including the indigenous Arab Jews of Israel!”

                      Exactly at the time, “there were”. There is no mistake.

                      “You erroneously categorize Israeli Jews from Arab countries as Arabs. “

                      At the time and until they took up citizenship in a non-Arab country, they were citizens of Arab countries.

                      Did you have a point?

                      Comment by talknic — July 17, 2014 @ 5:27 pm

                  • re: (Mikhael) “Where does that dialogue indicate that he is a Jew or a so-called “Jewish Arab”/”Arab Jew”??? “

                    [talknic] It indicates he’s not an Arab.”

                    If he’s not an Arab, then why does he say “I’m an Arab!” when asked what his community is? And if you believe that there is such a thing in Israeli society as an “Arab Jew” then you are contradicting your earlier claim, aren’t you? He clearly is israeli–that’s why his Hebrew is so fluent. He clearly is an Arab, that’s wnhy he said “II’m an Arab” and he clearly said he ‘s not a Jew, that’s why he said “I’m an Arab”

                    re [Mikhael]““The pronoun “they” means they (those who say he stole hummus) can say whatever they want”

                    [talknic]Yes. “the Arabs””

                    Yes, the Arabs who say Israelis stole hummous can say whatever they want, because he’s an Israeli (although not an Israeli Jew) and he’s an Arab and he didn;’t steal anything from anybody, and that’s why he regards the question as so nonsensical.

                    re [Mikhael]““I’m an Arab” has a very clear meaning in Israeli society. It means “I’m not a Jew”

                    [talknic]http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3017.htm”

                    Yes, and Ella Shohat, a far Left (as opposed to people of the normal, rational and moderate Left like yours truly) is so aware of the inherent contradiction in calling oneself an Arab Jew that she had to write that tendentious politically motivated essay as a declaration of her self-expulsion from the Israeli body politic. She and other radicals of Mizrahi background (nearly all of them Iraqi, for some reason) think it’s chic to explore identity politics and declare themselves “Arab”. They represent a fringe of a fraction of a percent in Israeli society. Talk to a normal, average Israeli Jew with family background in the Mizrahi Diaspora. Ask him or her if he/she is an Arab Israeli. If you don’t get a punch in the face, you can watch them split their sides laughing. The idea is considered absurd.

                    re (Mikhael)”“I dispute your contention that this bolsters your allegation that Israeli Jews whose families lived in Arabic-speaking lands are Arabs”

                    (talknic)What is it you don’t understand about “was” and 1948 -50 buddy? Perhaps some reading comprehension or glasses or a shrink! Maybe a punching bag or a dog to kick!”

                    Israeli Jews from Arab countries weren’t Arabs in 1948-50 and they aren’t Arabs today. You linked to a wikipedia articdle discussing Israeli demographics in 2006.

                    re “[Mikhael]… I take up with you your contention that the Israeli government is “confused” on the issue”

                    [talknic]Quote me ..”

                    Easy! You write: “It shows how confused and convoluted the State of Israel’s policies have become. There is only one nationality on Israeli passports … “Israeli”. Anyone can become Jewish by religion, it doesn’t change their skin colour, eye shape, heritage, parents https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Chinese+Jews&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=96NpU4ThNIWPkAXow4HwDA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=932 The same applies to being an Arab Jew”

                    You claimed the Israeli government is “confused and convoluted” on the issue, but YOU are confused. . I will concede that as you are an ignoramus with no Hebrew knowledge, it might be easy to get confused due to the fact that the Israeli passport translates “ezrahut” (citizenship) as “nationality” (in accordance with standard international convention) and indeed, “nationality” can be a synonym for “citizenship”, i.e., referring to a category of membership in a state polity. But in terms of population registry statistics in Israel, whenever nationality is discussed–the word used in Hebrew is “le’om”–which is a status of being affiliated with an ethnic community within the state. Theer is no such thing juridically as Israeli le’om, but there is Israeli ezrahut.

                    re “You’ve got readers stats for this site? AMAZING!”

                    Most people won’t bother with you as much as I do. They scroll through the rantings and have a shrug, but I like taunting the mentally unbalanced, poking them with a stick. It’s harmless fun on the ‘Net.

                    re [Mikhael] “(By the way, you should also familiarize yourself with how apostrophes work in Englsh . You use them incorrectly.)

                    [talknic]Everyone makes mistakes now and then.”

                    Absolutely. My mistakes are mostly typos of the errant keystroke variety; but you make repeated factual errors, bring up non sequiturs to defend your arguments, and evidence complete ignorance of how an apostrophe works. You’ve messed it up too many times to chalk it up to a typo–you constantly insert an apostrophe into the word “its” when it is a possessive pronoun. “It’s” means “it is”–I think that’s even true in Strine.

                    You’re welcome. Now fix it.

                    Comment by Mikhael — July 17, 2014 @ 11:17 am

                    • “Yes, the Arabs who say Israelis stole hummous can say whatever they want, because he’s an Israeli “

                      Lemme see now. He’s an Israeli, who says of the Arabs “they can say whatever they want”. Which says he doesn’t identify with Arabs even though he admits his heritage is Arab, which of course is the point you’re trying to make of Jews who were nationals from Arab countries. I.e., Arab Jews.

                      ” Ella Shohat, a far Left (as opposed to people of the normal, rational and moderate Left like yours truly) “

                      Your arrogant bullsh*t is soooooo cute

                      “Easy! You write: “It shows how confused and convoluted the State of Israel’s policies have become. There is only one nationality on Israeli passports … “Israeli””

                      Not as easy as you claim pal… I was pointing out how confused and convoluted “the State of Israel’s policies have become” on the passport it is not confused, it is the same as every other country in the world.

                      “…They scroll through the rantings and have a shrug, but I like taunting the mentally unbalanced, poking them with a stick. It’s harmless fun on the ‘Net.”

                      Uh huh. That you’re an argumentative, abusive, arrogant troll who verifies nothing and brings no sources has been obvious from the outset. Little wonder you have an ex

                      “you constantly insert an apostrophe into the word “its” when it is a possessive pronoun. “It’s” means “it is””

                      Apart from being off topic, do a search for “it’s” on this page and thread…..

                      I did warn you…. bye!

                      Comment by talknic — July 17, 2014 @ 5:11 pm

      • re ““Why did the Israelis steal hummus from the Arabs?” listen to the responses, many of the israeli arab jews answer ‘i am Arab’.”

        Very few Mizrahim self-define as Arab, in Israel or outside, and historically very few have. What makes you think the respondents from the video were Israeli Jews, rather than Israeli Arabs?– and by Israeli Arabs, I mean non-Jews. Many hummous restaurants in Tel Aviv have Arab owners and employees, who speak perfect Hebrew.When they say “I’m an Arab, they mean they’re Arabgs, which very clearly means non-Jews in Israel.

        Comment by Mikhael — April 24, 2014 @ 10:48 am

        • “What makes you think the respondents from the video were Israeli Jews”

          The signage on the shops might hold a clue http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdb7TFqLBSw (sheeeeesh)

          “When they say “I’m an Arab, they mean they’re Arabgs, which very clearly means non-Jews in Israel.”

          Of course! They mean what you want them to mean. Why didn’t I think of that before. AMAZING how it all makes sense when you make things up to please yourself.

          Comment by talknic — April 24, 2014 @ 3:32 pm

          • The signage on the shops might hold a clue http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdb7TFqLBSw (sheeeeesh)

            No. You’re obviously very unfamiliar with Israeli society and culture. Even if it is true that you are an Aussie Jew, as you claim, it is obviously apparent that you are incredibly unfamiliar with our country. Most of the Arab population of Israel almost all speak Hebrew fluently as a second language. Some of them are more comfortable reading and writing in Hebrew than Arabic. Those Arabs who operate businesses in Jewish-dominated areas of Israel, like Tel Aviv, or even mixed areas like Yafo, Haifa, Lod/Ramle, Akko, depending on the business and the neighborhood, will sometimes post signage in their establishments almost exclusively in Hebrew. An example is the famous Abulafia (Arab Muslim-owned) bakery and restaurant, in a mixed part of Yafo, but which is very popular with Jewish customers which has mostly Jewish customers. Its signs and menus are all printed exclusively in Hebrew and English–not Arabic. Aside from Yafo, with its mixed Arab-Jewish population, many restaurants in Jewish-majority Tel Aviv are indeed owned by Arabs* (*by which of course, I mean non-Jews, because, by definition, an Israeli Jew ain’t an Arab–even if his/her ancestors once lived in an Arab-dominated country such as Yemen, Iraq, Egypt or Morocco, prior to making aliyah, or even if he/she belongs to a Mizrahi or Sefaradi family that has lived in Eretz Yisrael constantly for the last few centuries and used to speak Arabic along other dialects–like my late father’s family–by definition Jewishness excludes Arabness–it’s 2 separate nationalities) and some will even go to great lengths to obtain kashruth certificates from the rabbis to attract kosher-observant Jewish customers. These kinds of Arab-owned (again, Arab means non-Jewish) will often post signage exclusively in Hebrew. Even in Arab-majority areas and towns like Nazareth, Arabeh, Umm al Fahm, Taibeh, signs on Arab-owned and operated businesses that attract Jewish customers, such as auto mechanics, will usually at least be bilingual Hebrew/Arabic. Despite the fact that many Arab (again, when I say “Arab” that means a non-Jew, that’s how everyone in Israel, Jew and Arab, understands the term) citizens of Israel are proficient in Hebrew as a second language, when you ask them their identity they will all proudly answer “Arab”. Some have recently adopted the term “Palestinian” or even “Palestinian Israeli” to identify themselves. I guess they are nostalgic for the British colonial Mandate, when that designation was thrust on people of Arab and Jewish nationality alike (and even Greeks and Armenians) who resided in the country.

            Of course! They mean what you want them to mean. Why didn’t I think of that before. AMAZING how it all makes sense when you make things up to please yourself.

            No. Again, when they say they are Arab,they are explicitly declaring their non-Jewishness. I’m quoting them and taking their words at face value. To be very clear, since your antipodean brain seems to have difficulty with this, it means they are saying they are Arabs. Which means they are saying they are not Jews. Israeli Jews wouldn’t define themselves as Arabs, because we do not identify with Arab nationalism. I’m an Israeli Jew, although my paternal grandparents were native Arabic speakers, my father understood the language perfectly, but nobody in our family ever called ourselves Arabs, and like almost every other Mizrahi Jew, whether from a family that formerly spoke a Jewish dialect of Arabic or not, we saw and see other Jews, Ashkenazim, Sefaradim, Gruzinim, Parsim, Ethiopians as members of our nation, ‘am yisrael not Arabic-speaking Muslims or Christians.

            Comment by Mikhael — July 2, 2014 @ 5:35 pm

            • Whatever nonsense you need to believe in pal.

              2nd Jewish chap in the video “They can say what they want” (referring to Arabs)
              3rd Jewish chap in the video (wearing a Kippa) “We make it better than them” (referring to Arabs)
              4th Jewish chap in the video “Is there a complaint from the Arabs to the police” “the Arabs can fuck off” (referring to Arabs)

              Need I go further to show you’re a moron!

              Comment by talknic — July 8, 2014 @ 2:27 am

        • Here are two pics of the front of the famed Abulafia Boulangerie/restaurant –Arab (Not Jewish!)-owned and operated since 1879. Where’s the Arabic on the sign?

          In the case of Aboulafia, everyone in Israel knows it’s an Arab-run business Other restaurants owned by Arabs (Not Jewish!) in Tel Aviv and other parts of Israel with majority Jewish populations may not necessarily advertise their Arab background, but won’t deny it if asked.

          Comment by Mikhael — July 2, 2014 @ 5:45 pm

          • We’re not talking about Aboulafia and the comments by the proprietors in the establishments in the video show they are NOT Arab!

            Comment by talknic — July 8, 2014 @ 2:29 am

            • re “We’re not talking about Aboulafia and the comments by the proprietors in the establishments in the video show they are NOT Arab!”
              I guess we are making slow progress here, because you are finally coming around to the realization that Mizrahi Jews are not Arabs, which would seem to be the opposite of what you claimed in your initial post.
              However, one of the interview subjects (the 2nd, working at Sheinkin Shawarma) is an Arab citizen of Israel. (In other words, not Jewish.) That’s why, when asked “What’s your community?” he explicitly stated, with a broad smile, `”Arab!” The others were, apparently, Jews. You adduce as “proof” the Hebrew signage at the establishment where the 2nd interviewee worked to show he is a so-called “Arab Jew” (sic), but again, my showing the Hebrew sign at the Arab (non-Jewish) establishment Aboulafia shows that this means nothing. Since the man proudly said he was an Arab, we must conclude that he is not a Jew. Anyone familiar with Israeli society, as I am, understands this.

              Comment by Mikhael — July 15, 2014 @ 5:16 am

              • “I guess we are making slow progress here”

                You’re not making ANY progress pal.

                “.. because you are finally coming around to the realization that Mizrahi Jews are not Arabs, which would seem to be the opposite of what you claimed in your initial post”

                I haven’t mentioned Mizrahi Jews you stupid stupid person.

                “one of the interview subjects (the 2nd, working at Sheinkin Shawarma) is an Arab citizen of Israel. “

                I see. That’s why he said They can say what they want”

                “when asked “What’s your community?”

                Problem pal. He was asked “what’s your background = an Arab Jew!

                “Anyone familiar with Israeli society, as I am, understands this.”

                You don’t even understand that Israeli passports issued by the Israeli Government have the OFFICIAL Israeli Government translation.

                “my showing the Hebrew sign at the Arab (non-Jewish) establishment Aboulafia shows .. “ only what it says at Aboulafia, you idiot.

                Comment by talknic — July 15, 2014 @ 5:58 pm

                • re “.. because you are finally coming around to the realization that Mizrahi Jews are not Arabs, which would seem to be the opposite of what you claimed in your initial post”

                  I haven’t mentioned Mizrahi Jews you stupid stupid person.”

                  No, you did even worse. You erroneously stated that Mizrahi Jews were Arabs.

                  re “I see. That’s why he said “They can say what they want””

                  That’s right. He said “They can say what they want.” That means those who claims “the Israelis stole hummous” can say what they want. He was full of mirth at the question, as an Israeli citizen, because he identifies as as an Israeli who is an Arab. Someone who identifies as an Israeli Arab means that they identify as a non-Jewish Israeli citizen of Arab Muslim/Christian/Druze nationality. Israeli Jews don’t identify themselves as Arabs. How does it mean he is declaring himself a Jew, especially as he affirmatively declared he was Arab
                  (Again, see below):

                  re ““when asked “What’s your community?”

                  Problem pal. He was asked “what’s your background“ = an Arab Jew!,/i>”

                  No. He was asked in Hebrew, “?איזה עדה אתה”– “Eizo eida ata?” which means quite literally, “What’s your community?”
                  The subtitles translated it as “What’s your background” but Corey Gil Shuster’s subtitle was less than accurate, although colloquially it has the same meaning as “What’s your background?” The interviewee said, with a broad smile, indicating how ridiculous he thought the question was, when asked “Eizo eida ata?” –“Aravi”
                  An Israeli Jew, when asked “Eizo eda ata?” may answer when referring to his/her family background “Teimani” (Yemenite)–“Ashkenazi–Hungari” (Ashkenazi Hungarian)–“Moroka’i” (Moroccan) but they never, never answer “Arab.” The only Israeli citizens who will respond that they are Arab when asked “Eizo eda ata?” (What’s your community?) not surprisingly, are Arabs. (And again, for your edification, “Arab” by definition, means NOT a Jew.)

                  re “You don’t even understand that Israeli passports issued by the Israeli Government have the OFFICIAL Israeli Government translation.”

                  Israel is a Hebrew-speaking state with Hebrew (and Arabic) as official languages. The Hebrew word אזרחות on the passport refers to one’s citizenship, not one’s nationality (which is a different concept). The arguably inaccurate translation on the Israeli passport of “ezrahut” as “nationality” doesn’t change the meaning of the word “ezrahut” .The primary meaning of ezrahut remains “citizenship”. The most likely reason that the English word “nationality” is used on the passport is to follow standard convention in accordance with international usage is to use the word “nationality” in English (and nationalité in French) rather than “citizenship”/”citoyen”.
                  The word for nationality in Hebrew is “leom” and is different from citizenship. Thus, for population statistics (and formerly this was indicated on Israeli ID cards–the teudat zehut), citizens –(ezrahim in Hebrew) are registered as being of Arab le’om (nationality), Jewish leom (nationality) etc. Israeli citizens’ nationality (le’om) on passports for foreign travel is not indicated–although, yes, the Hebrew word for citizenship is confusingly rendered as . “nationality”. Looking at US passports and British passports, it seems that the word “citizenship” isn’t used and the English translation on Israeli passports follows this linguistic convention.

                  Again, you’re very welcome, again, for the FREE lesson in Hebrew–the NATIONAL language of the Jewish people, hence, for all people of Jewish nationality–even those in far off Oz . It’s always my pleasure to teach the ignorant!

                  Comment by Mikhael — July 16, 2014 @ 7:51 am

                  • “You erroneously stated that Mizrahi Jews were Arabs”

                    Quote me …. thx …. waiting_for_the_israeli_propagandist

                    “That’s right. He said “They can say what they want.” That means those who claims “the Israelis stole hummous” can say what they want. “

                    WOW! You seem intent to prove you really are a moron!

                    Interviewer “Why did you steal Hummus from the Arabs?”
                    2nd proprietor“Why did I steal the Hummus from the Arabs?”
                    Interviewer “Yes”
                    2nd proprietor “Who said that?”
                    Interviewer “The Arabs say that!”
                    2nd proprietorThey can say what they want.”

                    You’re flogging a dead horse and trying to ride its rotting corpse

                    ” (And again, for your edification, “Arab” by definition, means NOT a Jew.)”

                    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132800 Take it up with Arutz Sheva. From your perspective they’ve obviously got it all wrong!
                    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/742430.stm Take it up with National Academy of Sciences. They’ve obviously got it all wrong too!

                    Re Israeli passports. Same dead horse, same rotting corpse you’re trying to ride. Take it up with the Israeli Government. Tell ‘em they’ve got it wrong!

                    “It’s always my pleasure to teach the ignorant!”

                    What ever idiotic fantasies you need to have pal!

                    Comment by talknic — July 16, 2014 @ 6:30 pm

                    • re “You’re flogging a dead horse and trying to ride its rotting corpse”

                      Yes, I am flogging you, but I won’t ride you, as you won’t get anywhere

                      If the friendly Arab proprietor/worker at the hummous/falafel/shwarma
                      eatery was Jewish then WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY , O Dead Horse, when
                      asked in Hebrew “What is YOUR community?” (Eizo eda ata?) did he
                      happily and proudly announce—“Arab!”. Israeli Jews, when asked that
                      question, will not answer “Arab”. They may mention the country they or
                      their parents/grandparents/great grandparents hailed from prior to
                      aliyah–e.g. Yemen, Germany, Morocco, Iraq, Hungary–but Israeli Jews
                      –even those whose families hail from Arabic-speaking lands, do not
                      affirmatively respond that they are Arab when asked such a question.
                      You know who will answer that they are Arabs? Arabs (non-Jews) do! The
                      people in the video who answered that they were Arab, starting with
                      interview subject #2, were not Jews by their own proud admission.
                      And they should be proud be to Arab citizens of Israel–not “Jewish
                      Arabs” because that doesn’t exist–unless we are discussing an Israeli
                      citizen of mixed Jewish/Arab nationality–an Arab father and a Jewish
                      mother, perhaps.

                      Re “http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132800 Take it up
                      with Arutz Sheva. From your perspective they’ve obviously got it all
                      wrong!
                      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/742430.stm Take it up with
                      National Academy of Sciences. They’ve obviously got it all wrong too!”

                      The Arutz 7 article discusses Arab non-Jews (mostly Muslim Arabs) who may be
                      of partial Jewish ancestry. This is interesting, may or may not be true
                      (it is quite likely that many –not all!– non-Jewish Arabs have some familial Jewish roots) but
                      whether true or not, it does nothing to bolster your contention that Israel is
                      an Arab-majority country by redesignating the large Mizrahi-Jewish
                      population in Israel (which I am descended from) as “Arabs.” The Mizrahi Jews of Israel, who either have lived in Eretz Yisrael for generation or whose families hailed from Arab lands, as of 2014 overwhelmingly use Hebrew as their first language (unlike the non-Jewish Arab citizens of Israel who speak it as a 2nd language) and do not identify with Arab nationality. Hence, they are not Arabs, but Israeli JEWS. Overwhelmingly, It is with their very close kin,Ashkenazi Jews, who they marry and mate with, not any distant Arab non-Jewish “cousins”.

                      The BBC article you link to is also interesting–it helps to counter the claims of those who claim that Israeli Jews have no connection to the region, and are historically and genetically “alien” but it does not prove your contention that Israel’s Mizrahi Jews are “Arab.” DNA studies also reveal that, not surprisingly, Norwegians and Swedes, Serbs and Croats, and Japanese and Koreans are close genetic relatives (in the case of Japanese and Koreans, the language and culture is significantly different that the other groups I mentioned) That does not mean that they are all of the same nation. Japanese are not Koreans because they are descended from Koreans. Serbs and Croats (who essentially speak different dialects of the same language) may share common ancestry–but a Serb is a Serb and a Croat is a Croat. And so on. Your links to do not support your argument.

                      Re “Re Israeli passports. Same dead horse, same rotting corpse you’re trying to ride. Take it up with the Israeli Government. Tell ‘em they’ve got it wrong!”

                      As I stated earlier–the word “nationality” on the passport is used because the format of the passports follow certain international standards, and whereas the Hebrew clearly states “Ezrahut”–you do read Hebrew, right?–which can most accurately be translated as “citizenship” the general international convention is to use the word “nationality” in English instead of the word “citizenship”–if one looks at the dictionary.com definition of the word “nationality” , two definitions are given: “na·tion·al·i·ty
                      ˌnaSHəˈnalitē/
                      noun
                      noun: nationality; plural noun: nationalities

                      1.
                      the status of belonging to a particular nation.
                      “they changed their nationality and became Lebanese”
                      synonyms: citizenship More
                      “what is your nationality?”
                      distinctive national or ethnic character.
                      “the change of a name does not discard nationality”
                      2.
                      an ethnic group forming a part of one or more political nations.
                      “all the main nationalities of Ethiopia”
                      synonyms: ethnic group”

                      The first definition refers to citizenship, the second definition refers to what is known as “Le’om” in Hebrew. There is no confusion, however, except on your part. When the word “Ezrahut” which means “citizenship” in Hebrew is translated into English on the passport, the conventional word “nationality” is used–international passports use the word nationality instead of citizenship. When some citizens of Israel (both of Arab and Jewish nationality–i.e., le’om–petitioned the Israeli Supreme Court to have their nationality (le’om) recognized as Israeli–they did so in Hebrew–not English (Israel is a Hebrew-speaking state, you know) and asked for their “Le’om” (nationality–in accord with the 2nd definition) to be recognized as “Israeli.” The Israeli Supreme Court (with its members of Arab and Jewish nationality–le’om) ruled that there is no such thing as Israeli “le’om” –nationality-only Jewish Leon, Arab Le’om, etc. The Ornan ruling never concerned itself with whether there is such a thing as Israeli Ezrahut–citizenship. The fact that the Israeli passport translates the word ezrahut to “nationality” (an occasional synonym of the word citizenship) in English (not an official language of Israel!) has no bearing on whether there is or should be such a thing as Israeli Le’Om and indicates confusion on the part of senile geezers in Oz who have no Hebrew, perhaps, but shows no inconsistency within Israeli policy.

                      Comment by Mikhael — July 16, 2014 @ 9:41 pm

                    • @ Mikhael — July 16, 2014 @ 9:41 pm

                      “Yes, I am flogging you, but I won’t ride you, as you won’t get anywhere”

                      Whatever self delusional crap you need to believe pal!

                      “If the friendly Arab proprietor/worker …”

                      This one?
                      Interviewer “Why did you steal Hummus from the Arabs?”
                      2nd proprietor“Why did I steal the Hummus from the Arabs?”
                      Interviewer “Yes”
                      2nd proprietor “Who said that?”
                      Interviewer “The Arabs say that!”
                      2nd proprietorThey can say what they want.”

                      “The Arutz 7 article discusses etc etc “

                      Take it up with Arutz 7

                      “The BBC article etc etc “

                      Take it up with the National Academy of Sciences

                      “As I stated earlier–the word “nationality” etc etc “

                      Is on a passport officially issued by the Israeli Government take it up with them

                      “.. senile geezers in Oz …”

                      Cute. Off topic. You’re gonna get yourself banned buddy

                      Comment by talknic — July 17, 2014 @ 2:57 am

                    • re (Mikhael (the same one) If the friendly Arab proprietor/worker …”

                      This one?
                      Interviewer “Why did you steal Hummus from the Arabs?”
                      2nd proprietor“Why did I steal the Hummus from the Arabs?”
                      Interviewer “Yes”
                      2nd proprietor “Who said that?”
                      Interviewer “The Arabs say that!”
                      2nd proprietor“They can say what they want.”

                      Where does that dialogue indicate that he is a Jew or a so-called “Jewish Arab”/”Arab Jew”??? The pronoun “they” means they (those who say he stole hummus) can say whatever they want. His declaration, “I’m an Arab” has a very clear meaning in Israeli society. It means “I’m not a Jew”

                      re “The Arutz 7 article discusses etc etc “

                      Take it up with Arutz 7″

                      Take what up with Arutz 7? The fact that you completely misinterpreted their story and drew bizarre conclusions from it? I don’t think they’re interested. I already stated that their article detailing how many non-Jewish Arabs living in Israel/Palestine are of partial Jewish heritage is very interesting and likely has some truth to it. It doesn’t mean, however, that Israeli Jews whose families hail from Arab lands (Mizrahi Jews) or who are descended from Mizrahi/Sefaradi families that resided here for generations and formerly spoke Arabic are to be regarded as Arab. “Arab” isn’t a race. It’s a national identity and a culture. Hebrew-speaking Israeli Jews, do not identify as Arab.

                      re”“The BBC article etc etc “

                      Take it up with the National Academy of Sciences”

                      Again–did I dispute the National Academy of Science’s conclusion that Jews and Arabs are closely genetically related? To the contrary, I welcome such findings as it counters the narrative that Israeli Jews are impostors who have no roots in the area. I dispute your contention that this bolsters your allegation that Israeli Jews whose families lived in Arabic-speaking lands are Arabs. Are Japanese the same as Koreans because they share a substantial genetic lineage with Koreans? Is a Dane a Swede and a Swede a Dane, because they share substantial genetic heritage?

                      re ““As I stated earlier–the word “nationality” etc etc “

                      Is on a passport officially issued by the Israeli Government take it up with them”

                      Like I said, The Israeli government adheres to standard wording used on all passports. I don’t need to take it up with them–but I take up with you your contention that the Israeli government is “confused” on the issue.
                      YOU are confused. Israel recognizes Israeli EZRAHUT–CITIZENSHIP–it does not recognize Israeli “leom”. The Israeli Supreme Court ruled on citizens who petitioned to change their population registry nationality–(LE’OM in Hebrew) from Jewish/Arab to “Israeli”. It didn’t weigh on changing someone’s EZRAHUT to Israeli–because the State of Israel has always recognized Israeli EZRAHUT. If you read the decision, in Hebrew, you’d see I am right. But you have no Hebrew.

                      Cute. Off topic. You’re gonna get yourself banned buddy.

                      Oh dear. But then you’ll lose one of the handful of people in the world who’ll read your crap. Before you ban me, I’ll let you know that I was not offended by your repeated ad hominem hurling of words like “moron” (because a stupid person cannot offend his superior with terms like that) but I do regard your references to me as “pal” and “buddy” as highly offensive. Again, you’re quite welcome for the free Hebrew lessons. If you really are a Jew, you owe it to yourself to familiarize yourself with Hebrew, the national language of the Jewish People.

                      (By the way, you should also familiarize yourself with how apostrophes work in Englsh. You use them incorrectly.)

                      Comment by Mikhael — July 17, 2014 @ 4:22 am

                    • The word ‘Arab’ is not a national identity, it is a language group. Arabs are people who speak Arabic as their first language. They have a wide range of nationalities ranging from Moroccan to Iraqi. The word ‘Jew’ indicates an identity by descent or religion. Zionists consider ‘Jew’ to be a national identity, but non-Zionist Jews take their nationality from their country of birth and upbringing. It is perfectly reasonable for Jews whose first language is Arabic to be called Arab Jews or Jewish Arabs. People often have mixed identities, for example Irish-American, or several identities for example, a man born in east London might call himself a cockney, a Londoner, an Englishman, or a Briton; or even a Jewish cockney, depending on context. People have a right to identify themselves as they wish.

                      The objection to the Israeli system of ‘national’ identities is that people are not allowed to specify their own identity, it is allocated by the State. The system only allows a single identity, chosen from one of a small set of possibilities. This is an extremely illiberal policy whose purpose can only be to allow discrimination against non-Jews.

                      Comment by walktallhangloose — July 17, 2014 @ 8:26 am

                    • “Where does that dialogue indicate that he is a Jew or a so-called “Jewish Arab”/”Arab Jew”??? “

                      It indicates he’s not an Arab.

                      Interviewer “The Arabs say that!”
                      2nd proprietor “They can say what they want.”

                      “The pronoun “they” means they (those who say he stole hummus) can say whatever they want”

                      Yes. “the Arabs”

                      “I’m an Arab” has a very clear meaning in Israeli society. It means “I’m not a Jew”

                      http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3017.htm

                      “Take what up with Arutz 7?”

                      Playing dumb is so cute…

                      “did I dispute the National Academy of Science’s conclusion that Jews and Arabs are closely genetically related? To the contrary”

                      Oh OK. So there’s no point in you blabbering on here.

                      “I welcome such findings as it counters the narrative that Israeli Jews are impostors who have no roots in the area.”

                      I haven’t expressed that notion . I have expressed the notion that Jews and Arabs are closely genetically related and that the indigenous Jews did have roots in the area.

                      “I dispute your contention that this bolsters your allegation that Israeli Jews whose families lived in Arabic-speaking lands are Arabs”

                      What is it you don’t understand about “was” and 1948 -50 buddy? Perhaps some reading comprehension or glasses or a shrink! Maybe a punching bag or a dog to kick!

                      “… I take up with you your contention that the Israeli government is “confused” on the issue”

                      Quote me ..

                      “But then you’ll lose one of the handful of people in the world who’ll read your crap”

                      You’ve got readers stats for this site? AMAZING!

                      “I’ll let you know that I was not offended by your repeated ad hominem hurling of words like “moron” (because a stupid person cannot offend his superior with terms like that)”

                      Arrogance 101….. So pathetic

                      ” but I do regard your references to me as “pal” and “buddy” as highly offensive”

                      Tough pal.

                      “(By the way, you should also familiarize yourself with how apostrophes work in Englsh . You use them incorrectly.)

                      Everyone makes mistakes now and then.

                      Comment by talknic — July 17, 2014 @ 6:30 am


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