First, find out what isn't true…

November 17, 2010

Mark Twain and Palestine. Have you ever actually read Innocents Abroad? The Israeli narrative only mentions a couple of lines. Why would that be?

Filed under: Israel & the Palestinians — Tags: , , , , , , , — talknic @ 12:21 pm

It’s actually quite simple. If it isn’t the “acknowledged” Sovereign Territory of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Israel,
then it’s the territory of what remains of Palestine since Jordan and Israel declared their Sovereign Independence from Palestine in 1946 & 1948.

ShortLink http://wp.me/pDB7k-Jp
To begin
Like “we made the desert bloom” or “Israel is the only democracy in the M East” or Israel treats Gays better than the Arab states or there was no state of Palestine or the number of Jewish Nobel prize winners or Israel’s alleged invention of computer chips or the mobile telephone or most Palestinians would rather live under Israeli rule than Palestinian rule or anything that happened prior to 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time), Mark Twain’s description of Palestine is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO THE LEGAL STATUS OF TERRITORIES and the rights and duties of Statehood. They are all non-arguments. Hasbara nonsense 101.

The argument that Jews made the dessert bloom, is not a valid argument for Israel’s ongoing intransigence. Why it is brought into the equation is completely irrelevant to International Law. Never the less, let’s have a look at what the Hasbara fails to mention from Twain.

Twain was recovering from cholera during his journey through Palestine, IN THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER… begins here … for the most part the route he took to Jerusalem, was through barren areas. E.g., Damascus to the Sea of Galilee. Nablus to Jerusalem. Look at Google Earth even today. The dead sea, today. These are the areas Twain is quoted for! IN THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER.

You will not find the following cited by apologists for a Greater Israel.

“The narrow canon in which Nablous, or Shechem, is situated, is under high cultivation, and the soil is exceedingly black and fertile. It is well watered, and its affluent vegetation gains effect by contrast with the barren hills that tower on either side”

“Sometimes, in the glens, we came upon luxuriant orchards of figs, apricots, pomegranates, and such things, but oftener the scenery was rugged, mountainous, verdureless and forbidding”

“We came finally to the noble grove of orange-trees in which the Oriental city of Jaffa lies buried”

“Small shreds and patches of it must be very beautiful in the full flush of spring, however, and all the more beautiful by contrast with the far-reaching desolation that surrounds them on every side”

“Every where about the Mosque of Omar are portions of pillars, curiously wrought altars, and fragments of elegantly carved marble–precious remains of Solomon’s Temple. These have been dug from all depths in the soil and rubbish of Mount Moriah, and the Moslems have always shown a disposition to preserve them with the utmost care. At that portion of the ancient wall of Solomon’s Temple which is called the Jew’s Place of Wailing, and where the Hebrews assemble every Friday to kiss the venerated stones and weep over the fallen greatness of Zion, any one can see a part of the unquestioned and undisputed Temple of Solomon, the same consisting of three or four stones lying one upon the other, each of which is about twice as long as a seven-octave piano, and about as thick as such a piano is high. But, as I have remarked before, it is only a year or two ago that the ancient edict prohibiting Christian rubbish like ourselves to enter the Mosque of Omar and see the costly marbles that once adorned the inner Temple was annulled. The designs wrought upon these fragments are all quaint and peculiar, and so the charm of novelty is added to the deep interest they naturally inspire. One meets with these venerable scraps at every turn, especially in the neighboring Mosque el Aksa, into whose inner walls a very large number of them are carefully built for preservation
————-
Bayard Taylor who wrote of the Jezreel Valley in 1852 “one of the richest districts in the world”
Laurence Oliphant 1887, again of the Valley of Jezreel “…was ‘a huge green lake of waving wheat, with its village-crowned mounds rising from it like islands; and it presents one of the most striking pictures of luxuriant fertility which it is possible to conceive’ “
——–
It’s rather obvious from reading Innocents abroad, Mark Twain did not visit the most fertile areas of Palestine. It’s also rather obvious that Israel’s holey old Hasbara is just cherry picking!

10 Comments »

  1. The silly, humorous, satirist Mark Twain also said the following about Greece! From: http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Articles/Story845.html

    Quote- “From Athens all through the islands of the Grecian Archipelago, we saw little but forbidden sea-walls and barren hills, sometimes surmounted by three or four graceful columns of some ancient temples, lonely and deserted—a fitting symbol of desolation that has come upon all Greece in these latter ages. We saw no plowed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind, scarcely, and hardly ever an isolated house. Greece is a bleak, unsmiling desert, without agriculture, manufactures, or commerce, apparently.” (The Innocents Abroad, p. 203)

    Also some more great quotes on Palestine from history:

    http://australiansforpalestine.com/history/pre-1948

    Quote- The historical record disproves the Zionist lie that Palestine was undeveloped before the establishment of Jewish settlements in Palestine, Muqqadisi, a native of Jerusalem who died in 986 A.D., enumerated the principal products of Palestine in the tenth century:

    ..among which agricultural produce was particularly copious and prized: fruit of every kind (olives, figs, grapes, quinces, plums, apples, dates, walnuts, almonds, jujubes and bananas), some of which were exported, and crops for processing (sugarcane, indigo and sumac). But the mineral resources were equally important: chalk earth, marble from Bayt Djibrin, and sulphur mined in the Jordan Valley, not to mention the salt and bitumen of the Dead Sea. Stone, which was common in the country, was the most generally used building material for towns of any importance.(2)

    The following description also provides evidence from the late tenth century: “Palestine is watered by the rains and the dew. Its trees and its ploughed lands do not need artificial irrigation. Palestine is the most fertile of the Syrian province.”(3)

    In 1615 the English traveler George Sandys described Palestine as “a land that flows with milk and honey; in the midst as it were of the habitable world, and under a temperate clime; adorned with beautiful mountains and luxurious valleys; the rocks producing excellent waters; and no part empty of delight or profit.”(4)

    A British missionary who lived in Beirut and visited Palestine in 1859 described the southern coastal area as “a very ocean of wheat,” and the British Consul in Jerusalem, James Finn, reported that “the fields would do credit to British farming.”(5)

    The German geographer Alexander Scholch concluded that between 1856 and 1882 “Palestine produced a relatively large agricultural surplus which was marketed in neighboring countries, such as Egypt and Lebanon, and increasingly exported to Europe. These exports included wheat, barley, dura, maise, sesame, olive oil, soap, oranges, vegetables and cotton. Among the European importers of Palestinian produce were France, England, Turkey, Greece, Italy and Malta.”(6)

    Lawrence Oliphant, who visited Palestine in 1887, wrote that Palestine’s Valley of Esdraelon was “a huge green lake of waving wheat, with its village-crowned mounds rising from it like islands; and it presents one of the most striking pictures of luxuriant fertility which it is possible to conceive.”(7) This Palestinian wheat had historically played an important part in international commerce. According to Paul Masson, a French economic historian, “wheat shipments from the Palestinian port of Acre had helped to save southern France from famine on numerous occasions in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.”(8)

    Agricultural techniques in Palestine, especially in citriculture, were among the most advanced in the world long before the first Zionist settlers came to its shores. In 1856, the American consul in Jerusalem, Henry Gillman, “outlined reasons why orange growers in Florida would find it advantageous to adopt Palestinian techniques of grafting directly onto lemon trees.”^ In 1893, the British Consul advised his government of the value of importing “young trees procured from Jaffa” to improve production in Australia and South Africa.(10)

    All of this historical evidence from unimpeachable eyewitnesses destroys Israel’s contention that it developed Palestine through its colonization. The legend that the Zionists have created, that they made “the desert bloom with roses,” is totally without foundation. It is a ploy to gain donations from naive Jews throughout the world and to help extort economic aid from the American Congress. The economic achievements of Israel today are built totally on the capital base of lands, property and possessions usurped from the Palestinian Arabs.

    end quote.

    Comment by Brent — May 26, 2011 @ 6:32 am

  2. Also for the Palestinian currency (that the Zionist hasbara propaganda idiot mentions in his point #11); see the Palestine Pound that existed during the British Mandate of Palestine (1920-1948) and that Palestinian Authority was trying to being using again in recent years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_pound

    Comment by Brent — May 19, 2011 @ 9:24 pm

  3. Allow me to respond to the idiot poster calling themselves “Ya” and the idiotic Zionist hasbara (i.e. meaning propaganda in Hebrew) article he cites.

    1) The land of Palestine has existed since prehistoric times, we know of the Canaanites which the Palestinians both descend from and have genetics from. On this point even “Israeli” academic Dr. Ariella Oppenheim of Hebrew University in “Israel” admits to this clear reality that Palestinians= indigenous Canaanites!

    2) The land of Palestine you fool, that has had the same boundaries since at least Roman Empire times!

    3) al-Quds (Jerusalem) where numerous civilizations have been based and where the Muslims built the Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary) in the 7th Century CE. This majestic Muslim religious site includes the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock. The Dome of the Rock is still actually the main symbol of the city of Jerusalem with its Golden Dome, this reality is clear in the eyes of most people of the world (both Muslims and non-Muslims) till this very day!

    4) Just some of the numerous Palestinian cities: Akka (Acre), Haifa, al-Quds (Jerusalem), Yaffa (Jaffa), Ramleh, Baysan, Nazareth, Safad, Tulkarm (Tulkarem), Lydda, Al-Khalil (Hebron), Nablus, Jenin and we could go on and on listing all the completely historically verified Palestinian cities that were ethnically cleansed by the Zionist European colonialist criminals.

    5) Mostly agriculture in early and medieval times. Now read just a few of the many great quotes on the economy of Palestine:

    In 1615 the English traveler George Sandys described Palestine as “a land that flows with milk and honey; in the midst as it were of the habitable world, and under a temperate clime; adorned with beautiful mountains and luxurious valleys; the rocks producing excellent waters; and no part empty of delight or profit.”

    A British missionary who lived in Beirut and visited Palestine in 1859 described the southern coastal area as “a very ocean of wheat,” and the British Consul in Jerusalem, James Finn, reported that “the fields would do credit to British farming.”

    The German geographer Alexander Scholch concluded that between 1856 and 1882 “Palestine produced a relatively large agricultural surplus which was marketed in neighboring countries, such as Egypt and Lebanon, and increasingly exported to Europe.

    These exports included wheat, barley, dura, maise, sesame, olive oil, soap, oranges, vegetables and cotton. Among the European importers of Palestinian produce were France, England, Turkey, Greece, Italy and Malta.”

    Lawrence Oliphant, who visited Palestine in 1887, wrote that Palestine’s Valley of Esdraelon was “a huge green lake of waving wheat, with its village-crowned mounds rising from it like islands; and it presents one of the most striking pictures of luxuriant fertility which it is possible to conceive.”

    This Palestinian wheat had historically played an important part in international commerce.

    All Truth Seekers read this following paragraph:

    According to Paul Masson, a French economic historian,“wheat shipments from the Palestinian port of Acre had helped to save southern France from famine on numerous occasions in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.” No one can deny Acre as a Palestinian Port in which products were shipped from and from which the Palestinians helped and saved people (mostly Europeans like the French) from famine and starvation…

    Agricultural techniques in Palestine, especially in citrus-culture, were among the most advanced in the world long before the first Zionist settlers came to its shores.

    In 1856, the American consul in Jerusalem, Henry Gillman,“outlined reasons why orange growers in Florida would find it advantageous to adopt Palestinian techniques of grafting directly onto lemon trees.”^

    In 1893, the British Consul advised his government of the value of importing “young trees procured from Jaffa” to improve production in Australia and South Africa.

    6) The Canaanites had a government. The Roman administration certainly had a Roman government in Palestina. The Umayyads, Ayyubids, Fatimids, Mamluks, and Ottomans (all Muslim empires) had their own governments which very importantly were Muslim governments just like the Muslim majority nation of Palestine is under great leaders like Hamas! What about your “beloved” Zionists though, they only had their European inspired colonialist ideology announced in the 1896 publication of Austro-Hungarian journalist and founder of racist Zionism Theodor Herzl’s book “Der Judenstaat” (translated as “The Jewish State”). Then the first Zionist congress was held in the city of Basel, Switzerland from August 29 to August 31, 1897: it was here that the ZO (Zionist Organization) was established again in 1897. The ZO later became known as the WZO (World Zionist Organization) in 1960. Also why did Theodor Herzl (lived from 1860 to 1904) not want to have a government based on the Old Testament of the Bible (a side note a book of fiction), isn’t this what the Zionist try to base their claims on of an alleged “Jewish state”?! Instead Herzl adopted and implemented European style laws! In fact Herzl himself was a lapsed, non-practicing Jew; but wait Zionists I thought this was all about a “Jewish state”?! Oh you Zionists believe in a racially fantasy “Jewish state” much like the white Afrikaner racists in Apartheid South Africa!

    7) You ask for just one Palestinian leader before Arafat. Let me see well the Canaanites had their political leaders. Oh yeah and their was Jesus Christ, himself a Palestinian! Also on leadership: the Umayyads had theirs, the Ayyubids theirs (one of the most famous being Saladin the founder of the Ayyubid dynasty), the Mamluks had theirs, the Ottomans had their Sultans that had the land of Palestine (with the Palestinians living in it) under the control of the Ottoman Empire. But to get to what the Zionist propagandist author was trying to insinuate (about their allegedly being “no” Palestinian leaders before Yasser Arafat) there are tons of Palestinian leaders from before the time of even Herzl who died in 1904, Yasser Arafat wasn’t born until 1929! For the sake of time let me just talk about one very famous Palestinian family, that the Zionist propagandist are very familiar with and like to talk a lot about: that is the al-Husayni family of al-Quds (Jerusalem). The most famous member of this family was the Palestinian Grand Mufti of al-Quds (Jerusalem) Mohammad Amin al-Husayni (aka Hajj Amin al-Husayni) born in 1895 even before Herzl’s book forming the ideology of Zionism “Der Judenstaat” was published in 1896! Preceding Mohammad Amin al-Husayni his father Kamil al-Husayni was the Palestinian Grand Mufti of al-Quds (Jerusalem) who died in 1921 meaning he was born sometime likely in the early to mid 1800s, at around the same time as Theodor Herzl the founder of Zionism who was born in 1860 in the city of Pest, Hungary (in what was then Austria-Hungary). And then lastly we can even cite Kamil al-Husayni’s father (and thus the famous Mohammad Amin al-Husayni’s grandfather) Grand Mufti Mohammed Tahir al-Husayni who was the Palestinian Grand Mufti of al-Quds (Jerusalem) that lived from 1842-1908 thus he was born 18 years before the infamous Theodor Herzl (the founder of Zionism) was even born.

    8) Palestine has been recognized by all historical people through history the Canaanites, the Hebrews, the Romans (unless you don’t think they “recognized” the region of Palestina they included as part of their Roman Empire), the Umayyads who built the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Ayyubids, Fatimids, Mamluks, Ottomans, etc. All of these clearly marked Palestine as territory on their empire’s maps. I would recommend “Israeli” historian Haim Gerber of Hebrew University in “Israel” who has written a book called “Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century”. Haim Gerber (himself an “Israeli” Jew) in his work as a historian finds clear use of the territorial concept Palestine and to the residents of this territory being Palestinians as far back as the Mamluks in the 13th century CE. Note again that Dr. Ariella Oppenheim says Palestinians Arabs are descendants of the indigenous Canaanites and all the later waves of Hebrews, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, etc. And if you want to talk about nations that exist today ever major Arab and Muslim nation only recognizes a nation of Palestine and not an entity of Zionist “Israel”. Some examples of nations that recognize only Palestine: Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Bahrain, Libya, Yemen, Iran, etc. Oh yeah and as for non-Muslim, non-Arab states: Cuba and North Korea both do not recognize Zionist “Israel”, only the state of Palestine!

    9) The Canaanites languages like for example the Phoenician language, Aramaic in the time of Jesus, and from about the 7th century CE till our modern day the Semitic language of Arabic (which is even one of the two official languages officially recognized by the Zionist “Israeli” entity/government itself).

    10) The Canaanite “Pagan” religions that even the Bible’s Old Testament speaks of. Since then in modern times the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Today Palestinians are mostly Sunni Muslims, but there are still a significant minority of Palestinian Christians till this very day (mostly of Eastern Orthodox denominations). Interesting note all pre-Zionist entity (i.e. pre-1948) Jews that migrated to Palestine (mostly from Europe) called themselves Palestinian Jews. Note Palestinian Jews were always the very small minority of the inhabitants of Palestine, and Palestinian Arabs were well over 90% of the population of Palestine before 1948. And even today Palestinian Arabs outnumbered “Israeli” Jews if we count everything between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea the Zionist “Israeli” government themselves call this the Palestinian Arab “demographic threat”. What racist and apartheid language the Zionists openly use! This “demographic threat” is why the Zionists try to recruit new “Jewish” settlers from all over the world to come occupy and steal more Palestinian Arab land. In particular in recent times Zionist “Israel” has brought over many white Russian “Jews”.

    11) How is this pathetic question even relevant?! Note a very good point for the Zionist propagandist whose weak article you cited as for your claim: “Finally, applying such logic is very dangerous since it would eliminate half United Nations’ members overnight.”

    Also you do realize the modern philosophy and the definition of “nationalism” (as we understand it) is just that a very modern phenomenon in historic terms. Even encyclopedias tell us this: “Before the development of nationalism, people were generally loyal to a city or to a particular leader rather than to their nation. Encyclopaedia Britannica identifies the movement’s genesis with the late-18th century American Revolution and French Revolution; other historians point specifically to the ultra-nationalist party in France during the French Revolution.”
    Most of human history has been empires and loyalty to cities and tribes, so nice hasbara (Zionist propaganda) attempt with the historic term “nationalism”. And I could just as easily say to you Zionism was a late 1800s movement by European Jews (a colonialist “movement”, founded with the support of the colonialist British Empire see the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and before that the “Uganda Plan” aka British Uganda Programme which was a 1903 offer by the British Colonial Secretary Joseph Chamberlain to Theodore Herzl’s Zionist group to give the Zionists a colonialist “homeland” in East Africa in particular modern day Kenya) in response to European Christian discrimination.

    To close on this, the currency or money of the Canaanites, the Roman Empire, Umayyads, Ayyubids, Mamluks, Ottoman Empire, etc. is Palestinian currency you racist Zionist tool.

    12) Ask even an “Israeli” Jewish archaeologist in “Tel Aviv” about this and he can show you the artifacts of the Canaanites, the artifacts of the Roman Empire in Palestina, the Umayyads, Ayyubids, Mamluks and on through the Ottoman Empire. Oh yeah and the Palestinian Muslims constructed the beautiful, majestic Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary) in the heart of al-Quds (Jerusalem) in the 7th century CE: to be exact in 691 CE. The main monuments of the Haram al-Sharif are again the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the beautiful golden-domed Dome of the Rock. Again the golden-domed Muslim holy site called the Dome of the Rock is the main architectural and historical symbol of al-Quds (Jerusalem) till this very day among both Muslims and even most of the non-Muslims of the world! Again along with the Al-Aqsa Mosque in al-Quds (Jerusalem).

    13) You want Palestinian literature? Well I can give you tons! Canaanite hieroglyphics of the Canaanite languages are easily found on Canaanite artifacts and again Palestinians are descendants of the Canaanites even Dr. Ariella Oppenheim an “Israeli” Jew from Hebrew University in “Israel” shows this in her famous, renowned genetic studies on the indigenous Palestinian Arabs (note Arab/Arabic is a culture and a language not a race). Any Roman historian that speaks of Palestine and its Palestinian people is a part of Palestinian literature. Then going to the age of Islam 7th century CE to today; to save some time let me just say the Holy Qur’an! The Arabic Holy Qur’an is a huge part of Palestinian literature. For example verses of the Holy Qur’an are found on the artwork of Jerusalem’s Dome of the Rock again constructed in 691 CE.

    http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/copper.html (Includes images of copper plaques from the
    Dome of the Rock in al-Quds containing Qur’an verses)

    Thus the Holy Qur’an in the Arabic language is a central part of Palestinian literature and dates all the way back to the 7th century CE this is long before your “1967” challenge date! Then we can go through the works of the Ayyubids, Mamluks, Ottomans, etc. all this is Palestinian literature you Zionist fool.

    14) Palestine still exists you clown, only racist Zionists like you don’t want to acknowledge it! Even officially the British Mandate of Palestine (yeah even the word Palestine was there under the British) didn’t end until 1948! So until the Zionist usurpers from Europe declared their illegal Zionist entity in 1948 and ethnically cleansed out the indigenous Palestinian Arabs there was a nation of Palestine (again all the way to the 1948 collapse of the British Mandate of Palestine). And again Palestine exists today, and many nations both Arab and non-Arab (Iran, Cuba, and North Korea) only recognize a state of Palestine not a Zionist state called “Israel”.

    A good point for you Zionist fool calling yourself “Ya” from the “israel initiative”:

    In the land of Palestine everyone was (and is) called Palestinian because that’s what people call (and called) the land (i.e. Palestine). It wasn’t Israel, and hadn’t been since 722 BCE. Even Jews living there before 1948 were know as Palestinians, and the land was and is known as Palestine. For example what are British? They are the Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Scots, Welsh and Anglos. Not to mention all the recent immigrants from all over the Commonwealth. Yet they are all still called “British”.

    Then as for some of the remainder of the garbage the article you posted spews:

    The Zionist colonialists from Europe, Russia, and America who are mostly white Ashkenazis stole the land from the indigenous Palestinian Arabs (that even Dr. Ariella Oppenheim says are descendants from the prehistoric people of the land, the Canaanites and others). The Palestinians are fighting a just cause of resistance, and only racist Zionist fools like you can’t see this. And the article you post is really absurd in trying to claim the “Bible” is some kind of source, its a fantasy book of fiction! You also insult the oppressed Native Americans who also had their land stolen by evil white European colonialist invaders, just shows how evil you are.

    A good quote for you: “The “Jewish” population of Israel includes people from fifty countries, of different physical types, speaking different languages and practicing different religions (or no religion at all), defined as a single people based on the fiction that they, and only they, are descended from the Biblical Abraham. It is so patently false that only Zionists and Nazis even pretend to take it seriously. In fact, given Jewish intermingling with others for two thousand years, it is likely that the Palestinians—themselves the result of the mixture of the various peoples of Canaan plus later waves of Greeks and Arabs—are more directly descended from the ancient inhabitants of the Holy Land than the Europeans displacing them. The claim that the Jews have a special right to Palestine has no more validity than would an Irish claim of a divine right to establish a Celtic state all across Germany, France, and Spain on the basis that Celtic tribes once lived there. Nevertheless, on the basis of ascribed descent, the Zionist officials assign those they have selected a privileged place within the state. If that is not racism, then the term has no meaning.”

    Oh yeah and one last huge thing, this alleged “Yashiko Sagamori” is a fake name being used deceptively as a pseudonym by some Zionist; if I had to guess maybe some Zionist named something like Shlomo Goldstein in Brooklyn, New York lol! With Zionists however what can you expect other than falsehood and lies?! Oh yeah that’s right you can also expect to hear constantly them claiming your “anti-Semitic” when you refute their lies and propaganda. Of course putting aside the fact these white Ashkenazi Khazars “Jews” are not even Semitic to begin with!!!

    Comment by Brent — January 20, 2011 @ 10:09 am


    • Hi Brent,

      Chunky post. I’ll sift through it later….zzzzzzzzzzzzz’ding off here at the moment.

      Best to include your sources as links…. if you will….I know it’s extra work, but provenance is really important thx

      T

      Comment by talknic — January 20, 2011 @ 5:33 pm


  4. “Who Are the Palestinians?”, by Yashiko Sagamori, a New York-based Information Technology consultant (25 November 2002)

    If you are so sure that “Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history”, I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of “Palestine”:

    1. When was it founded and by whom?

    2. What were its borders?

    3. What was its capital?

    4. What were its major cities?

    5. What constituted the basis of its economy?

    6. What was its form of government?

    7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

    8. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

    9. What was the language of the country of Palestine?

    10. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?

    11. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and try and find the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, British pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

    12. Have the Palestinians left any artifacts behind?

    13. Do you know of a library where one could find a work of Palestinian literature produced before 1967?

    14. And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?

    If you are lamenting the “low sinking” of “once proud” nation, then please tell me, when exactly was that “nation” proud and what was it so proud of?

    And here is the least sarcastic question of all: If the people you mistakenly call “Palestinians” are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over – or thrown out of – the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat by Israel in the 1967Six Day War?

    I hope you avoid the temptation to trace the modern day “Palestinians” to the Biblical Philistines: substituting etymology for history won´t work here.

    The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel; they still cherish it today. Having time and again failed to achieve their evil goal through military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that purpose, they created a terrorist organization, cynically called it “the Palestinian people” and installed it in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. How else can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept back the “West Bank” and Gaza, respectively, in the aftermath of the 1967 war?

    The fact is, Arabs populating Gaza, Judea, and Samaria have much less of a claim to nationhood than the American Indian tribe that successfully emerged in Connecticut with the purpose of starting a tax-exempt casino: at least that tribe had a constructive goal that motivated them. The so-called “Palestinians” have only one motivation: the destruction of Israel. In my book that is not sufficient to consider them a “nation” — or anything else — except what they really are: a terrorist organization that will one day be dismantled.

    In fact, there is only one way to achieve piece in the Middle East. Arab countries must acknowledge and accept their defeat in their war against Israel and, as the losing side, should pay Israel reparations for the more than 50 years of devastation they have visited upon it. The most appropriate form of such reparations would be the removal of their terrorist organization from the land of Israel and acceptance of Israel´s ancient sovereignty over Gaza, Judea, and Samaria.

    That will mark the end of the Palestinian people. What are you saying again was its beginning?

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=1614

    Comment by Ya — November 21, 2010 @ 3:35 pm


    • None of your questions is relevant.

      Israel declared the extent of it’s sovereignty and became independent of the non-state entity of Palestine May 11th 1948.

      What lay outside of Israeli’s sovereign extent, was quite simply NOT ISRAELI!! Since declaration Israel has never legally annexed ANY territory.

      It doesn’t really matter that what remained of the non-state entity of Palestine, is called Palestine. It ain’t Israel.

      Nothing else you said was supported… Just another stupid apologist for a Greater Israel.

      Oh BTW some pics for your perusal.

      Comment by talknic — November 21, 2010 @ 4:27 pm


  5. Palestine only exists in your mind.

    It’s not real.

    Comment by Ya — November 21, 2010 @ 3:32 pm


    • Uh huh.

      Fabulous refutation there. Fact filled, erudite, well debated … unfortunately you forgot to post it

      Meanwhile, there’s nothing presented here without substantiation … http://wp.me/pDB7k-GO

      Which is a lot more than can be said of the Israeli narrative … http://wp.me/PDB7k-Y

      Comment by talknic — November 21, 2010 @ 3:38 pm

    • Israel – isn’t real.

      Comment by Pujete — May 15, 2012 @ 5:30 pm

      • Israel – isn’t real. Isn’t a valid argument. The law is and by it Israel will eventually hang itself

        The Law exists to help resolve emotive issues which can’t be resolved by the parties in a peaceful manner.

        Israel drew its own line in the sand May 15th 1948 and asked for recognition by it. “the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947″

        OK If that’s what the Zionist organizations wanted and if it didn’t cleanse and discriminate against the Arab inhabitants and if it stayed within its borders and adhered to the UN Charter and the Law. Jews and non-Jews are quite capable of coexisting peacefully.

        So whether we like it or agree or not, Israel exists as an Independent Sovereign State thru its own declaration 15th May 1948 and by democratic recognition by the majority of the International Community of States. From that date and Israel’s subsequent recognition by the majority of the International Community of States, Israel must be judged by its own statements on record at the UN.

        Where Israel is operating outside “the State of Israel”, it is subject to the Laws and UN Charter it obliged itself to uphold by declaring itself a state. This is the basis of the hundreds of UNSC resolutions against Israel, most of which are reminders.

        Only the US veto vote stops the law having full effect, under which Israel would 1) be sent bankrupt for decades trying to pay reparations and; 2) likely erupt into civil war as it tried to evacuate millions of duped Israelis out of Palestine 3) as such a civil war would be fought mainly outside the State of Israel, the Arab Regional Powers would have a right to intervene as they did in 1948, without UNSC condemnation.

        Comment by talknic — May 16, 2012 @ 12:19 am


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